Zumo XT doesn't save time information in Tracks?

[skyguy]

Hi, folks – SO glad I found this forum!

I used a zumo 660 for many years on my motorcycle trips and was fairly happy with it. But I recently got a pretty good deal on a new zumo XT and decided to make the change. A bit of a learning curve, to be sure, but all in all I'm mostly satisfied with it.

I just took it on a two-week trip thru the Canadian Maritimes and it worked pretty well. But when I got home and started to write up a ride report for advrider, I discovered something: The zumo XT doesn't appear to record "time information" when I record a track.

I used to be able to take a .gpx file from the 660 and import it into a couple of different sites to get a visual representation of the track. http://utrack.crempa.net/ was one that could output a nice report with speed and elevation profiles, max and average, etc.
But tracks I recorded on the XT show a little note at the bottom:

"Uploaded track does not contain time information so it is impossible to count statistics about speed and time
Note: Garmin devices forgets [sic] time data when you save active track into memory, see your instruction manual for details."

It gives me my mileage total, but that's it.

I also used to be able to open a 660-generated .gpx file in Google Earth and "play it back" so it looked like a fast helicopter tracing my route, which was fun to watch. But the XT-generated .gpx files don't even show up.

I can import into https://www.gpsvisualizer.com/ and get my track overlaid on a map, so that's something. At least I can make a ride report with a map.

But is there any way to get the XT to record AND SAVE the "time information" in a .gpx track?

I took a ride today and recorded a track using the MotionX app on my iPhone, but then discovered I couldn't get the track off the phone AND MotionX has been discontinued. I'm sure there are other .gpx track-recording apps I could use, but this seems like something the zumo XT should be able to do. It's predecessor had no problem with it.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[jfheath]

Welcome to the forums.

If you have not turned the feature off, all of your travel history is recorded in CurrentTrackLog.gpx. When that becomes full, the contents is written to numbered gpx files in Archive.

You can download these files - and should do this if you want to keep them as older files are eventually over-written. These files always hold the time and date information.

They can also be viewed....

* In Basecamp with the XT connected as Active Log files.
* On the XT itself in the tracks app. (main screen, apps, tracks). There are two tabs on the right hand side of the list you can select one of them to show your tracks. The top tab, with dotted circle and north arrow, lists your own created tracks that you have imported.
The bottom tab that looks like a calculator, shows your active logs.

Basecamp will also help you to analyse the date, showing graphs of speed and elevation - and as you move around the graph, it shows the position on the map of that particular part of the map.

Check whether you have track recording turned on or not....

Main screen->Settings->Device->Travel History

Having this turned on also gives the XT additional information to allow it to calculate your predicted journey times more accurately, as it builds up information such as how fast you ride on different types of roads.

I only have one manually recorded track. The contents were the same as the active logs. Here is one entry for one point in that log.

<trkpt lat="57.168304" lon="-4.647730">
<ele>17.92</ele>
<time>2022-09-04T14:30:57+01:00</time>
<extensions>
<gpxtpx:TrackPointExtension><gpxtpx:speed>23.33</gpxtpx:speed>
<gpxtpx:course>36.71</gpxtpx:course></gpxtpx:TrackPointExtension>
</extensions>
</trkpt>

So you can see that position, elevation, time, date, speed and compass bearing (course) are all recorded for every single point. You often get one point recorded per second - but that varies widely depending on how fast you are travelling and how much variation there is int he position. It records more frequently on twisty roads for example.

If you would like to post one of your tracks (please not one that reveals home location or evidence of excessive speed - that would not be wise on a public forum) - or send me a private message with the gpx file of the track attached, I'll take a look at it.

Below are attached two screen shots from Basecamp.

One shows the graph and the runner indicating the point on the map.
The other shows the detailed table of points and their recorded values. The circle on the map plots the point that is currently highlighted in the table. The contents of this table are easily transferred to a spreadsheet.

Timing of the recorded points seems to be a little odd. Often out by an hour - something that is not explained by Daylight Saving Time.

Note that satnav recorded speeds at a given point cannot be relied upon. For an accurate speed you need a couple of position fixes and the time recorded for those points. You can then calculate the speed.

This isn't just this satnav. GPS satellites do not know the speed. The stanav can calculate your position, but even that is subject to error of a few metres. An error of a few metres in the space of one second, can make a significant difference to a speed calculation. A total error of (say) 4 metres over a distance of 400 metres will result a calculated speed which is subject to only 1% error.

Note that your satnav NEVER shows how fast you are currently travelling. It shows an average speed over the last few seconds (I think it is 5 seconds, but I don't know). So althought he avergae is pretty accurate, if you speed stays the same for that time. It can be wildly out on twisty roads, in areas where the vision of the sky is limitied (mountains, tall buildings, ....) and very noticably when you brake or accelerate quickly. The displayed speed lags behind the true speed.

I don't know which value is recorded in the active logs. The graph suggests that it is an inaccurate spot check.

The thumbnail attachments below will expand to full quality screen images if your browser is using the full screen and you click the thumbnail.

Case in point: For that stretch of road I was travelling at 60mph. I don't break the speed limit. Yet a couple of points further down it suggests an illegal speed. I have a few of these throughout this file. In one set of readings it has me at 51, 105, 0, 107, 54, 0,107, 54, 0, 54 with 1 second between each reading. Most of the readings either side of this are between 55 and 58. A weird glitch.

But by highlighting a number of consecutive points in the table, BAsecamp will show a summary of the elapsed time, distance and average speeds. Not average of the recorded speeds - but the real average obtained by dividing distance traveled by elapsed time.

A Fascinating tool. Worth half an hour of anybody's time !

[skyguy]

Thanks for the quick – and exceptionally informative – reply!

I knew that the XT saved "Active Tracks" but I was more interested in using "Track Recorder" function so I could control exactly when the recording started and ended. That was always my routine when I used the 660: At the beginning of each day's ride, I'd clear the current trip log and start riding. Then when I arrived at that day's destination, I'd call up the log, "View all segments," and name it/save it. I figured it would be much the same on the XT, but of course it's very not.

Thanks to your information, I was able to retrieve the tracks from my recent trip which had fortunately not yet been overwritten. Some of them are broken apart across a couple of files, but I can work with that. And I imported them into BaseCamp and saw all the graphing possibilities – Interesting!
Much of the same functionality as the "uTrack" site (but yes, the time's not right and the speed tracks seem way off). And they also work for the high-speed helicopter tours in Google Earth which are always fun.

But the tracks I saved on purpose using the track recorder still don't seem to have retained the "time" data. I wonder if it has something to do with the transfer method? It's clunky on the XT – I select a track in the "Tracks" app, hit the wrench and select "Share." My options are Bluetooth (to share with another Garmin device), microSD card, or share using the Garmin Drive app. I use the Drive app, and once the file is "received," I can AirDrop it to my Mac. The file always has the same name (bt_shared_tracks.gpx) and if I've selected more than one track they all get smooshed together into one file.
After I realized that, I'd import them one at a time, re-naming them as I went to keep them organized.

But no time information seems to have come across. I just imported one into BaseCamp and tried that "Graph" function, and the only thing it would show was "Course Over Ground" which is basically the compass directions at each turn. The "Speed" and "Elevation" options were gone. I also tried using a microSD card with the same result.

I've attached one of my tracks so you can see what I'm talking about (renamed as noted above). It still shows up on the map just fine, but the speed (time) and elevation data seem to be missing. Any thoughts about what might be happening?

THANK YOU again for your assistance!

230804.gpx

(325.82 KiB) Downloaded 274 times

[FrankB]

@skyguy

My Zumo XT does record Date and Time. See my tracklog from today.

Just an idea. Do you have the Zumo Xt linked to Garmin Explore? I dont. Maybe that's the reason.

Edit: And I used the track recorder to create 1 track! And shared the track via Garmin Drive App.

[skyguy]

Curiouser and curiouser!

I DO have my zumo XT linked to Garmin Explore. I'd forgotten all about Explore until just now. I went to the site and my tracks were there.
Interestingly enough they captured my distance and travel time, but "Max. Speed" and "Max. Elevation" were both zero.

Screen Shot 2023-08-20 at 3.28.36 PM.jpg (57.17 KiB) Viewed 984 times

I'll try to un-link my XT from Explore and see what happens. I probably won't be able to get out until next weekend, but I'll post the results in this thread.

Thanks again!

[FrankB]

You're Welcome.

I'm not convinced that unlinking Explore will solve it. But it's worth a try if you dont need it.

Also read this lengthy post about unlinking: viewtopic.php?t=2113
The title says 'how to carry out factory reset Zumo XT', but that's not needed. You can reset the Explore database from the developer menu. But there's one catch. First uninstall the Garmin Drive App, and when you've done the reset on the XT, reinstall Garmin Drive App. But DONT setup Explore. The button is somewhat hidden on most phones (Mine Samsung S9) That is explained in the post.

And thanks in advance for posting back the results. I'm Curious

[skyguy]

I had no idea it was so complicated to divorce a zumo XT from Garmin Explore! Lots of long threads about it, and I thank those who documented the process.

I think I've successfully disconnected my zumo XT from Garmin Explore. I deleted the Garmin Drive app from my iPhone and powered it down, cleared the Explore database and shut down the XT. Powered everything back up, downloaded a fresh copy of Drive, woke up the Garmin and re-paired it to the phone.

But the Drive app wants me to log in to my Garmin account. Can (should) I do that, or will it re-connect me to Explore?

I like the functionality I get from the Drive app (like traffic and construction updates) but I don't want to deal with Explore any more.

Thanks (again!) for any advice!

[jfheath]

Can you not use a USB cable to access the log file directly. It is in the GPX folder.

That is the only methode that I have used, andmy log has the all of the additional info.

Re Drive. Yes you log into your garmin account. You do Not set up Explore again - which is one of the next steps.
One of the buttons is hidden off the bottom of the android page on my phone. Wait for it to change to the next page to click it.

[skyguy]

I can connect to the zumo XT with a USB cable, but my "recorded" tracks don't appear to be anywhere. At least, nowhere I can find them.

I'm on a Mac, so I have to use "Android File Transfer" to mount the zumo XT on my system. I end up with a window that looks like this:

Screen Shot 2023-08-20 at 7.44.39 PM.jpg (150.11 KiB) Viewed 961 times

As you can see, I've opened the "GPX" and "Archive" folders to see what's inside. The numbered GPX files (1.gpx, 10.gpx, 11.gpx, etc.) are indeed the auto-saved "Active Log" archives that the zumo creates. But each file contains several tracks, often several days' worth. For example, if I open up "5.gpx" I get six actual logs, spanning different parts of July 29th and 30th. And each one does have all the track info: speed, distance, elevation, etc.

But I can't find the tracks I manually recorded using the "Tracks" app. They show up on the XT (in the Tracks app), each one named with the date they were recorded (like "July 30, 2023 7:45 am")

Since they're not in the GPX folder, I figured the "Log" folder might be another likely location, but the only thing in there is another folder called "fit" which is apparently empty.

And actually, now that I've completed the separation from Garmin Explore... my saved tracks are gone!
Were they only stored offline on the Explore app? That's annoying.
Next time I go for a ride, I'll try manually recording again and we'll see what happens (which was the plan in the first place).

Oh, and thanks for the info about (re-)connecting to the Drive app. I entered my Garmin account info and got this page:

IMG_5756.jpg (116.5 KiB) Viewed 961 times

I tapped "Maybe Later" which hopefully means "Never."

Thanks again – I'll keep you posted!

[jfheath]

I should have read further before posting this. SO I have told you how to do somethingt hat you have already spotted. Never mind, I'll leave this answer here becsue it contains additional information.

Near the top of the list

CurrentTrackLog.gpx

And then all of the numbered files in Archive
ie 1.gpx, 2.gpx, 3.gpx etc.

The CurrentTrackLog is added to, each ride, until it gets too big, when another numbered file is added to the archive and a new CurrentTrackLog is created. The oldest numbered files are eventually deleted to make room for more recent files.

If you want to keep them, I suggest you copy the contents of Archive soon. The zumos use to keep the latest 20 files. The XT claims to keep around 6 months before it starts deleting. None of my 3Xts to date have reached that figure to find out.

I'll post this and add more in a minute.

Back again. Curious that all of your numbered archive files were last modified on 16 Aug 23. Im not sure how the 3Mb of the currentTrackLog gets broken down into 1Mb (approx) archive files. Older Zumos would archive as soon as Currenttracklog got to 1Mb. I have spotted that the XT has modified the last two archive files after they were first created. I know that they claim to keep tracks from the same day all together.