Zumo User Forums

Well, if you like mysteries, Garmin will provide you with a good supply!

Basecamp definitely still works with the XT2.

It is 'not compatible' because the XT2 has some features that Basecamp cannot possibly know about - so it cannot provide the information that the XT2 can use. Two examples of this are

• Where the routes tracks and waypoints are going to to be organised. The XT doesn't have a method. The XT2 allows you to use collections - without having to connect to the Explore database to enable them.
• The XT2 makes use of the segments of a route (between two via points), and can apply a separate routing preference to each segment. Basecmap sends routes with these headers, but it cannot set a different header for each segment. It would be a simple programming job to do it though !!

But in all other respects the XT2 behaves in a simailar manner to the XT, 590, 595 before it. And everything that you could do with routes and send them to your Zumo - still works as it always did. It uses temp.gpx to temporarily store the most recent data from Basecamp. (No other software uses this file, and its use has been enhanced for the XT2). Current still contains the data that has been imported.

And at long last the Zumo is no using the term 'Waypoint' to describe the items that are sent to it as <wpt> tags in the gpx file - ie those points that are created and saved before being used in a route. No more Favourites / Saved. Just waypoints, route points, via points, shaping points.
And we now have a route planner. Not a trip planner.

Except it appears that you cannot use the XT2 to create a route from pre-saved Waypoints. You have to use the map. Unless I haven't found it yet.

I'm beginning not to care what great experiences others have had with the XT2 and what's supposed to work with it.
Even if Basecamp doesn't have all the functions of the newer XT2, it doesn't mean that the XT2 can't always or reliably process GPX files.

It was only at the weekend that I experienced again that the XT2 was not able to process the route created in BC.

And then it remains the same, long and complex routes take an eternity, and the import too, although the import via the Tread app seems to work a little faster.

PS
My routes are planned. and when I write planned, I mean planned. This means that even on a gt 2500 km tour, no 20 km are unintentionally left to chance.

proofresistant wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 9:18 pm I'm beginning not to care what great experiences others have had with the XT2 and what's supposed to work with it.

I have an XT2, I use BaseCamp for all my route planning, and I live in the US. I add the last part because maybe the underlying maps are at fault. I was having issues getting what I created in BC to show up on the XT2 until I read https://www.zumouserforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1464" and ensured I had my GPS and BC set up as per the instructions. I have had very little issue since then.

At any rate, this summer I did a 33-day road trip. Every riding day was planned out in BaseCamp ahead of time. The only day that the XT2 simply flubbed the routing was the day I was in the Black Hills of South Dakota. On that particular day the route did a figure-8 and crossed over itself, which I suspect made the XT2 go "WTF?!" and decide it knew better than I did. Every other day resulted in the same route I'd planned out.

craig.wagner wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 9:41 pm

proofresistant wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 9:18 pm I'm beginning not to care what great experiences others have had with the XT2 and what's supposed to work with it.

I have an XT2, I use BaseCamp for all my route planning, and I live in the US. ...

I live in Europe,
but try importing the attached routes into Bascamp anyway and then transferring them to your XT2 device.
The short route will only import with issues.
The longer route through the Alps will not work and if it does, it will take forever.

And after you've tried it, feel free to write to me again and tell me how great it all works.

Please note, I want routes, not just tracks, because you don't need a Garmin to follow just one track.

Last but not least,
even different maps shouldn't be a general problem.
Every tool I know can handle GPX with other maps from other sources, except Gramin.
Of course, with other maps, individual points aren't hit exactly, but the line should at least work roughly.

I'll take a look at your routes, but just an observation / explanation:

When Basecamp sends routes it sends hundreds / thousands of gpxx route point extension data. These plot the route that BC prepared exactly. I call them ghost points, and they are identical to the points that garmin uses to create a track.

Along with these, BC sends Subclass data. A long string of hexadecimal numbers which contain info taken from the map such as road type, junction type, access ..... Much of the code remains a mystery, but some parts have been decoded.
What we do know is that every single Subclass entry has a code that identifies the map that created it. If the map in the Subclass doesn't match with the Zumos current map, the route is recalculated.

MyRouteApp doesn't have this problem with v1.2 of its gpx export option. But neither does it send the shaping points. But the route is not recalculated on import. And for this format to be any use, the Zumo has to have auto recalc turned off. I have yet to try this with the XT2, but its on my 'list'.

So far every route that I send from Basecamp to the XT2 gets recalculated. But there may be other factors in play which I keep forgetting to clear after a system reset - eg Popular moto routes, Michelin Scenic Roads, Hilly and twisty. These are settings which I think apply to the whole route - and just like having shorter time set on the Zumo and Faster time in Basecamp forces a recalculation, I suspect that these options may be affecting the results.

proofresistant wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 10:52 pm I live in Europe,
but try importing the attached routes into Bascamp anyway and then transferring them to your XT2 device.
The short route will only import with issues.
The longer route through the Alps will not work and if it does, it will take forever.

And after you've tried it, feel free to write to me again and tell me how great it all works.

OK - SO I've downloaded your routes. The file with the longer route actually only contains the track.
If you post a gpx file with the route, I can take a look at that - no problem - this fits in with what I have been working with on and off for the last few days - its good to have different examples.

The short one WK_Tyre_GPX10 - that loaded in straight away. I didn't load it into Basecamp, so I didn't recacluate the route to ensure that the maps matched. The route was recalculated and most of the shaping points were moved - including the one at the East end of Albert Einstein Strasse designed to keep the route away from Route 51. With that gone, that section of the magenta line ended up on Route 51. Not good - but that unfortunately is what happens when you use a Basecamp route.

The route itself is still regarded as 'Imported' as opposed to 'Saved' - and that means that it may be susceptible to the RUT issue.

So I tried removing the subclass entries from the gpx file and loaded that. That took slightly longer to load but the route and shaping points were retained as they were. Screenshot below.

When the Tread app on my phone receives this, it recalculates it. The next time the route is selected on the XT2 screen, it has adopted the recalculated route.

So far, the only way that I have found to prevent this is to turn off the BlueTooth link between the XT2 and the phone. Or remove tread completely.

[edit] - Except - I have just tried again and although the Tread app is always running in the background, I haven't selected the Tread app to view the map on the phone's screen, and it is not open as a quick access window. The modified route from Basecamp (without Subclasses) has not changed. It has been sitting there for an hour or more. The route synchronised with the EXplore database - but that hasn't got to the Tread App, and it hasn't got back to the XT2. Nothing has changed. I've simulate driving the route and it worked fine. I also used the XT2's route editor on a section of the route and changed it to shorter distance. Accepted that, Then saved it back to Faster time. Saved that - The route went back to the original but now the Route is regarded as having been created on the Zumo XT2 - not imported. That is the indicator which prevents a RUT situation developing.[/edit]

The problem is when testing this - there is such a massive delay in the synchronisation between the two units, and the XT2 doesn't keep checking - so the route stays the same until you change screen and it has to reload it - and then you notice that it has been changed.

You can see how much time you can spend making the XT2 do what you have planned.

And yes, the long one from a track,
which the XT2 does not really understand, which is then not calculated by the XT2 and if you have to wait a long time.
Routes have directions and turn-by-turn instructions.
The XT2 doesn't even have the option of displaying direction arrows for tracks.

Anyway, I've slimmed down the short route again and thrown out everything except the route of the gpx file, which is probably not needed.
Once with shaping and once with via points.

The Tread app simply manipulates shaping points.
And you can easily reproduce it if you simply change other route profiles in the Tread app.
In my opinion, the shaping points should be left to the planner/user and the routing in between should be done by the device or the app.
This is a small demo that shows you what the XT2 or the Tread app interprets as it wants.

PS
Switching off Bluetooth prevents these errors, but is not a good option for me.
The Tread app is probably the best way to get data onto the XT2.
The cable solution is not so good. Firstly, you have to reboot every time and secondly, the XT2 sometimes takes ages to establish a connection to the PC.
For those who don't know yet, before the XT2 releases the connection to the PC, I assume it wants to export everything first and that can take a long time, sometimes a very long time.

OK I'll take another look.

Read my comment in blue above. It seems you may not have to turn off BT. Just make sure the Tread App is not open on the phone. (Swipe it off the screen). So far my route hasn't changed when Tread isn't open - even though it is running in the backgraound for weather, traffic, phone calls, etc.

You're exactly right,

Tread changes the sharpening points.
XT2 alone leaves the points unchanged, I didn't doubt that either

But according to Garmin's philosophy, the Tread app is part of the Garmin and so it should simply work together.

Perhaps we have misunderstood each other.

There were just 2 examples where the whole thing doesn't do what it's supposed to.
I could give a third example where neither the Tread app nor the XT2 accept a route. Here I probably know the reason, there are unpaved roads involved, but even these shouldn't cause any real problems for a sat nav.