Zumo User Forums

Humour me on this one. When it happens, tap the Skip button and read what it thinks is the next point......

Tried to do this with a 5 point route as above from Basecamp but as the XT renames the bloody Via points to all being M3 is difficult to know which Via point should be next
Simulating it with a route from MRA the correct Via point is the next expected point

That is interesting / weird.

Once you have selected closest entry point, what does the Xt say is the next route point when you select Skip ?

I remember something similar was posted a while ago. Back then we decided to just ignore it.
viewtopic.php?t=2297

If it helps. The 'problem' seems to be happening more often when you restart a route.

Since @jfheath raised the topic of editing the themes available on the Zumo XT, I thought worth sharing this for those folks who dabble with this.

A useful free editor for Garmin Theme files can be downloaded from here:

http://www.pinns.co.uk/osm/theme_editor.html

This editor provides a graphical interface for editing Garmin's theme files instead of directly editing the text of these theme files.

Also, a useful primer on theme (KMTF) files can be found in this post on the ADVRider forum:

https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/kmtf ... t.1585513/

@jfheath you mentioned adjusting the scale value for tracks from 1.00 to 3.00. In my experience, scale values greater than 2.5 do not appear to provide lines any larger than the 2.5 value. The Theme Editor program flags this anytime you use a scale value greater than 2.5. If you have found a work-around for values greater than 2.5, I would be interested in knowing more about this.

I have struggled with this because my Zumo XT sometimes wants to route me down unpaved roads, even though I have it set to avoid those. Attempts to change the map scale of unpaved roads to slightly wider than the magenta routing line have frustratingly failed. Garmin's map sets do not seem to know that a number of small roads in my area are unpaved, so their routing algorithms (despite the avoidances being set to avoid unpaved roads) are more-than-happy to route on those.

Lastly, I will be interested in hearing more about your experiments using Kurviger. I have begun using Kuriviger for an on-the-road route planning solution when I do not have a computer with Basecamp with me.

BMurray99 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 3:06 pm Garmin's map sets do not seem to know that a number of small roads in my area are unpaved, so their routing algorithms (despite the avoidances being set to avoid unpaved roads) are more-than-happy to route on those.

I see the same thing in rural North Carolina and Virginia. I see both unpaved routed as paved and paved avoided as unpaved. I've been routed on roads that weren't roads yet (early construction) and old paved roads that aren't routable for no apparent reason. I attribute it all to mapping errors.

BMurray99 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 3:06 pm
@jfheath you mentioned adjusting the scale value for tracks from 1.00 to 3.00. In my experience, scale values greater than 2.5 do not appear to provide lines any larger than the 2.5 value. The Theme Editor program flags this anytime you use a scale value greater than 2.5. If you have found a work-around for values greater than 2.5, I would be interested in knowing more about this.

I just fiddled until it worked, so I don't know about that. I did note that while one value (the track: seemed to be absolute, the other for the track seems to be proportional - or something like that. But if you have the track width set to smallest of the 3 options, you get very different display from if you set it to widest. 3 seemed to work best for me for the middle width setting of tracks on the XT. Sorry - not typical of me - i'd normally be wanting to hunt down the mathematics of it, but for this, once Id found something that worked, I couldn't be bothered after that !

BMurray99 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 3:06 pm I have struggled with this because my Zumo XT sometimes wants to route me down unpaved roads, even though I have it set to avoid those. Attempts to change the map scale of unpaved roads to slightly wider than the magenta routing line have frustratingly failed. Garmin's map sets do not seem to know that a number of small roads in my area are unpaved, so their routing algorithms (despite the avoidances being set to avoid unpaved roads) are more-than-happy to route on those.

The display scale wont affect what type of road it is in the map data. If the map data is wrong, then the navigation will be wrong.

BMurray99 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 3:06 pm Lastly, I will be interested in hearing more about your experiments using Kurviger. I have begun using Kuriviger for an on-the-road route planning solution when I do not have a computer with Basecamp with me.

This thread shows what I was asking and a summary of what I wanted to know. 2nd page.

viewtopic.php?t=2490

FrankB wrote: ↑Sat May 20, 2023 8:27 pm Like you I dismiss the screen and am not bothered.
In Settings, Driver Assistance there is a checkbox Route Preview. Maybe it helps if you untick it.

@FrankB thanks for the link
Yes it does appear to be the same issue & at least testing in simulation mode, turning off the Route Preview stops the annoying popup summary info screen. Will have to get out on the bike & check if its the same for real.

jfheath wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 5:13 am Once you have selected closest entry point, what does the Xt say is the next route point when you select Skip ?

@jfheath it is a little frantic using the Skip function in simulation mode as it is forever popping up a dialog box asking if you want to simulate the next segment
Hopefully I have this correct & it will answer your question
Before clicking the Skip button if I click the address banner at the top of the XT screen I see the following

The XT is obviously trying to calculate something as indicated by the blue spinning disc even though it shows the next intended route point is number 4 which would be the correct route point

If I return to the main screen, press the skip button, then re-click the address banner it appears I am still heading for Via point 4 but the blue spinning disc has disappeared & everything is going to route perfectly

It is almost like there is a duplicate route point 4

However if I rerun the test & before clicking the skip button I go to the Edit Route screen

It looks like in the Edit Route screen it thinks the next destination is Via point 3 which is behind me

Looks like different functions in the XT are looking at different parts of the route so no wonder it is having trouble working out what to display, possibly a case of bleeding mouse wagglers can't count!


With what I am rapidly coming to consider to be the worst purchase of my biking career (the XT),
I would also like to say that the patience of you experts is absolutely amazing.
Thanks very much for all the assistance,
If I can get the bloody thing to work well enough that I can keep my eyes on the road, I may keep it!

Have attached the gpx file of the route I am using to test in simulation

re - The next item being incorrect in the skip list.

I came across that behaviour when I was trying to work out what was going on with the Repeated U Turn / Broken Track Log behaviour but. i have not seen it recently.

That may be because I haven't looked for it specifically, or it may be because I know how to avoid the situation that causes the RUT behaviour from developing.

On the occasions that I saw it, something weird happened at the start, and it failed to recognise that I had passed through the start point

But it may not be related at all ! You could try @FrankB's fix to prevent RUT behaviour in the first place. I'll have a go too - but I wont have my XT for the next week or so.

But its tedious making that association. Before you can be sure that it fixes the problem, you have to be sure of the precise circumstances when it happens, and then be able to repeat it in different situations. Only then can you try a fix and prove that it doesn't ever happen in the exact same circumstances with the fix applied.

Hang on. I'm coming back to this - I need to read a previous post, and that difficult on an ipad on this forum. I usually lose what I have written.

The gpx file shows the route created in MRA

I am not sure what the first part related to a waypoint is trying to do - presumably add a waypoint as a point of interest to the favourites or POI section. I know MRA doesn't make it as easy to include waypoints as part if a route as Basecamp. However, this particular point is not used in the route itself.

I've tidied up the gpx with gaps between lines.

This has been exported as v1.1 - there are 4 Vias and one shaping point, and the route when loaded into XT has retained the names you gave.

<wpt lon="-0.45612573623657" lat="51.396005992167"><name>M3 POI</name><type>user</type>

<extensions>
<wptx1:WaypointExtension>
<wptx1:Proximity>100</wptx1:Proximity><wptx1:DisplayMode>SymbolAndName</wptx1:DisplayMode>
</wptx1:WaypointExtension>

<gpxx:WaypointExtension><gpxx:Proximity>100</gpxx:Proximity><gpxx:DisplayMode>SymbolAndName</gpxx:DisplayMode></gpxx:WaypointExtension></extensions>

</wpt>

<rte><name>M3 Fail3</name>
<rtept lat="51.432156499836" lon="-0.395867228508"><name>1 Oxford Way, Feltham, TW13 6, United Kingdom</name><extensions><trp:ViaPoint/></extensions></rtept>

<rtept lat="51.420205404773" lon="-0.41707813739777"><name>2 Sunbury on Thames, TW16 6, United Kingdom2</name><extensions><trp:ShapingPoint/></extensions></rtept>

<rtept lat="51.409146269527" lon="-0.43979376554489"><name>3 Sunbury on Thames, TW16 7, United Kingdom</name><extensions><trp:ViaPoint/></extensions></rtept>

<rtept lat="51.393878896764" lon="-0.48443108797073"><name>4 Chertsey, KT16 8, United Kingdom</name><extensions><trp:ViaPoint/></extensions></rtept>

<rtept lat="51.400902454283" lon="-0.52674025297165"><name>5 Chertsey, KT16 8, United Kingdom</name><extensions><trp:ViaPoint/></extensions></rtept>
</rte>

Nowt wrong with any of this, but I am wondering if the combination of MRA and XT is the issue. Normally, the transfer / import process to the XT modifies the route slightly. I believe - but do not know, so I am guessing - that this process checks that plotted route points are valid. It seems to take the lat/long coordinates, look up those in a database, finds the nearest named point on the route, and uses that name, and those coordinates. One consequence of this is that your route point names get changed - which annoyingly removes the sequence numbers that you have added.

The process also seems to treat shaping points, via points and waypoints differently.

MRA routes seem to bypass some of this processing. The routes don't have the subclass field, and they retain the route point names. So they avoid what I assume is the checking that route points actually lie in the route. Although they use HERE maps, there is no map version number for the XT to compare, so I can see no way that the XT can compensate for having a different version of the same map.

So I am wondering, just wondering, that maybe the way the route has been created, and the way the XT normally processes a route on transfer and on import and load, is resulting in the issue you describe.

Try this.

Create the same route in Basecamp. But - create the 5 route points as Waypoints, using the flag tool, first. Name them and then build the route. With the numbered names, the waypoints will appear in the lower left widow pane in BC in the correct order. Highlight them all, right click and select the option to create a route using the selected waypoints.

Then double click the route and edit the points to be shaping or via.

The XT will never change the name if a point that has first been created as a Waypoint.

Then see how that behaves.


I know when I saw this behaviour, it was in the early days of testing what I later termed the RUT behaviour. I had noticed that MRA routes kept their route point names - important when wanting to use Skip - so I know that I had been experimenting with MRA at the time so it is possible.

If it does turn out to be the case, this is likely to be an issue with any route created outside Basecamp.

jfheath wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 5:01 am Nowt wrong with any of this, but I am wondering if the combination of MRA and XT is the issue.

John, you can rule that out. I never actually drove trips created with MRA and I did see it.