Zumo User Forums

I'll attempt to decypher that .

You say that "every single route" (...all of them), using a particular profile is changed if the profile is changed. This may be true for the 14 named profiles, I've never tested it, but I believe this is incorrect for the custom profile. I change the custom profile from route to route, things like allowing or not ferries, or dirt roads. Only one route changes, the one I'm working on. No other customized routes get recalculated nor does the custom profile for another route change. I believe the custom route options chosen are applied to only that route for which they are chosen and no others. And this includes the OP's question concern average speeds.

rbentnail wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:45 am You say that "every single route" (...all of them), using a particular profile is changed if the profile is changed. This may be true for the 14 named profiles, I've never tested it, but I believe this is incorrect for the custom profile. I change the custom profile from route to route, things like allowing or not ferries, or dirt roads. Only one route changes, the one I'm working on. No other customized routes get recalculated nor does the custom profile for another route change. I believe the custom route options chosen are applied to only that route for which they are chosen and no others. And this includes the OP's question concern average speeds.

You say that "every single route" (...all of them), using a particular profile is changed if the profile is changed.

Yes, that is absolutely correct.

You can either use a saved profile to define your route(s)
or you can customise a single route as you are describing.

I was talking about routes using profiles. There is no such thing as a Custom Profile.

jfheath wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 11:30 am I was talking about routes using profiles. There is no such thing as a Custom Profile.

Semantics! "Profile" may be the wrong term but its meaning in understandable in the context of the result obtained after customizing route options. I wonder whether those customized routes would recalc as a result of a profile change. I suspect not.

jfheath wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 11:30 am

rbentnail wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:45 am You say that "every single route" (...all of them), using a particular profile is changed if the profile is changed. This may be true for the 14 named profiles, I've never tested it, but I believe this is incorrect for the custom profile. I change the custom profile from route to route, things like allowing or not ferries, or dirt roads. Only one route changes, the one I'm working on. No other customized routes get recalculated nor does the custom profile for another route change. I believe the custom route options chosen are applied to only that route for which they are chosen and no others. And this includes the OP's question concern average speeds.

You say that "every single route" (...all of them), using a particular profile is changed if the profile is changed.

Yes, that is absolutely correct.

You can either use a saved profile to define your route(s)
or you can customise a single route as you are describing.

I was talking about routes using profiles. There is no such thing as a Custom Profile.


Profiles.jpg

The bold above, isn't this what we're talking about? User defined parameters like avoidances and average speeds PER ROUTE? I agree with peobody, semantics! There IS a Custom Activity Profile, it's called None. It's #15 on the list. It's what shows as the activity profile when customizing is selected.

@Peobody My experience shows that once a route is customized, it never changes when custom parameters are changed for another route. Each customized route is independent of all other customized routes. John gives the impression that all routes of the same activity (motorcycling, driving, etc.) are recalculated when a parameter of that profile is changed. Maybe, I dunno. I long ago began customizing ALL of my routes and found that none are.

rbentnail wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 2:48 pm John gives the impression that all routes of the same activity (motorcycling, driving, etc.) are recalculated when a parameter of that profile is changed. Maybe, I dunno.

He is correct about that. I have seen it. When it happened it took me by surprise. I subsequently checked every route for identifiable changes. I think I will adopt your thinking about a None profile for every route so that I don't have to worry about it happening again.

rbentnail wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 2:48 pm My experience shows that once a route is customized, it never changes when custom parameters are changed for another route. Each customized route is independent of all other customized routes.

Yes, that is correct. That is exactly what customized means in this context.

rbentnail wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 2:48 pm John gives the impression that all routes of the same activity (motorcycling, driving, etc.) are recalculated when a parameter of that profile is changed. Maybe, I dunno. I long ago began customizing ALL of my routes and found that none are.

That is also correct. I hoped that I was giving more than an impression. I'll quote what I actually said in my first post on this topic.

You can see the effect of this if you change just a single setting - say, in the motorcycle profile. Every single route that uses that profile then gets recalculated. All of them. That is because they were created using that profile as it was, and the settings have just changed - so they all need to be recalculated.
You can create a 'Custom Route' - rather than assigning a profile. In this route, the settings such as avoidances are all stored with the BC route information.

But I should add that none of the avoidances or road speed info is ever sent to the Zumo.

There is only one downside that I can see to using Custom routes - but it is only really relevant if you regularly switch your Zumo to use in the car, so hardly an issue of any concern.

So, back to the OP's question, "... do you know how to allow unpaved roads on one route without effecting other routes?"

The answer is yes, I do know how to do this. Change your route to be customized and untick the selection for unpaved roads as an avoidance. Do this while the route is showing in Base Camp. Upon transfer but prior to importing, use Base Camp to view the route on the device, re-customize if needed. I find with most of my routes (I put mine on the SD card exclusively) the customization from Base Camp goes with the route as evidenced by the changed symbol and the activity profile still shown as None.

Peobody wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 7:01 pm ... More compelling is my empirical evidence that the XT treats a route with custom properties differently. However, when looking at a raw .gpx file, there is nothing that I could find that identified the route as having custom properties. Like @rbentnail, I believe it must be there somewhere. Regardless, I also believe that if the device (at least the XT) has a chance to recalculate, Transportation property that had been set in BaseCamp will be ignored.

I'm not sure whether I answered this particular question directly. I referenced it, but it probably got lost

In the GPX file at the top, routes that were created with. Motorcycling have this line

<trp:TransportationMode>Motorcycling</trp:TransportationMode>

Similarly, routes that were created with the Driving

<trp:TransportationMode>Automotive</trp:TransportationMode>

And you may also see entries like this :

<trp:TransportationMode>TourCycling</trp:TransportationMode>

These commands trigger the Zumo to adopt the particular set of route preferences that the user has set up for the different modes.

All Zumos recognise Automotive (BC Driving Profile = Zumo Car) and Motorcycling(BC Motorcycling Profile = Zumo Motorcycle). But not all Zumos recognise some other profiles.

Routes with Custom profiles do not have a Transportation Mode entry in the GPX file.

The Zumo has stored at least two profiles, selectable by tapping the bike or car icon on the top of the main screen. Some entries in settings (Navigation and Map & Vehicle) have a car, wheel or bike icon shown nexct to them - which indicates that the settings being looked at are saved separately for the bike and car.

When the gpx file is loaded, it looks at that transportation mode tag, and the route is then flagged as being (say) a motorcycle route.
If it doesn't have a tranportation mode entry, or it doesn't recognise the entry - then it uses the Zumos default setting of motorcycle.
So in the above examples, the Zumo would recognise TourCycling as a motorcycle.

If the route has to be recalculated, then it uses the settings that are stored in the Zumo for the vehicle that it has identified for the route.

So again, in the above examples Tour Cycling would use the motorcycle avoidances
Automotive would use the settings in the Zumo for the car.
Motorcycle and most other things would use the settings stored in the Zumo for motorcycle.

If the Zumo is going to have any chance of reproducing the route that Basecamp would have produced, then the settings have to be as close as possible. But how Zumos Interstates, State Highways and Residential Roads relate to the roads in the UK I do not know.

I just untick everything in Basecamp and note what changes happen to the route if I tick/untick when using the customize option. Add or move shaping points until nothing changes.

In the Zumo 590 this behaviour actually changes the vehicle type in the Zumo. So run a route that uses the Motorcylcing profile in when the Zumo is in the car cradle, the next time you come to plug the Zumo into the car cradle, it switches itself to using the Motorcycle profile ! I can't remember what the Zumo XT does, but it is all documented here : app.php/ZXT-P38


So Back to the comment that the Zumo treats Custom routes differently ? Well that may be an observation but as far as I can tell - and I have carried out a lot of testing - it treats it just like a motorcycle route. That is - if the route is recalculated.

It doesn't know what settings were made in roads and avoidances in Basecamp.
It defaults to using the Zumos motorcycle profile
It uses the preference that are in the Zumo that have been set up for the motorcycle.

But if you created two identical copies of a route and then set one to use the motorcycle profile and one to use the custom profile then in theory, both will use the motorcycle settings in the Zumo and both should produce the same route if the Zumo recalculates it.

But that would be hard to prove unless you ran two brand new Zumo XTs side by side and loaded the routes and tested them at exactly the same time. The Zumo XT builds up a profile of the rider and that affects behaviour, it is also sensitive to the day of the week and the time of the day and routes according to traffic info. The maps come with historic traffic info - but I do not know whether the XT uses this. The 590 certainly does.

Having said all of that ---

I carried out a simple test of a long route. I made two identical copies, and then set one to be a custom route and I ticked all of the avoidances except for roundabouts. Then exported them to gpx files, and did a DOS FC File comparison on the two. The files were almost identical

Except
Time the route was created.
The transportation mode lines.

Just Two subclass fields had the first 4 bytes and the last 4 bytes different. I need to look at that in more detail. I don't think it is relevant, but ....

Getting back to the original question and my associated recommended solution of assigning Direct to selected segments, I just came across a similar use for this technique. In the below example I am riding north on Arlington Church Rd and then turning west on Albemarle Rd. The map says that I can not turn left there (even though I can) so it creates a route that goes right then does a u-turn. To overcome that I added a Direct route point on Arlington Church Rd followed by a waypoint at the intersection of Arlington Church Rd and Albemarle Rd. The result is that BaseCamp now includes the left in the route.

Peobody wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 10:21 pm You can set a profile at the waypoint level What this allows you to do is to create route points along the unpaved road. Once added to the route you can open each one, from within the window that opens when you double-click a route, and assign 'Direct' routing to it. This will force BaseCamp to route with straight lines between these point. If the unpaved section is long and curvy, or has turns, you may desire a lot of points along it.
Note: When you do this, set the 'Direct" option in the starting route point of each leg that you want to have direct routing.
Edit via point.png

This is brilliant and I really appreciate the screenshot. Thank you very much.
Keith