Zumo User Forums

On BaseCamp I do one long trip, but then I create segments from it for my daily trips. On the gps, I use the daily trip for the reasons others have mentioned.

That's a good point, Russ. I never keep them in the Zumo. I usually use Basecamp and create the key waypoints first, then let BC build the route around them, and then add additional route points as required. Apart form that, I put them in there for two other reasons.

1. They are there in the favourites/saved - should I need to rebuild the route when I am out and about. Much easier to build a route with saved waypoints than to go searching or browsing the map. I've had to use that just a couple of times - the last time, I was testing the RUT issue and part way through I managed to destroy the route. So I rebuilt it at the side of the road in a couple of minutes using Waypoints. That was when I discovered that routes created on the Zumo do not have problems with the RUT issue.

2. But the main reason that I have started using more of them - is that from the 595, the Zumos have been in the habit of moving route points slightly - and then renaming them. But if they are created as Waypoints - it doesn't do that, even if they are set as shaping points.
(Except the XT2 - which does something really odd instead).

Peobody wrote: ↑Fri Mar 07, 2025 4:44 pm I'm not a fan of having saved Waypoints that are associated with multi-day tours.

I hate that the gps creates Saved points from waypoints. To me also, it just clutters up the folder with garbage I'll never use again. This is why I typically use all shaping points in my routes. It's rare I ever use a waypoint even on the longest or most complicated of routes.

Thank you everyone for your helpful replies. Some very practical information and tips based on your saddle experience - great!

‘Knowledge building underway here’ - very slowly, that is.

Mikey

To clarify please:
rbentnail said above:
“This is why I typically use all shaping points in my routes. It's rare I ever use a waypoint even on the longest or most complicated of routes.”

My understanding is that using Shaping points only (no Via Points) would get you from A to B but there would be little/no information on interval times/distances coming from the XT, along the route. Is this so?

I had all SP’s on a 2 day ride recently and ‘I didn’t know where I was’. Well, I did know but the XT wasn’t helping me much with route progress information apart from keeping me on the route.

Thank you, Mikey.

I am the opposite of using all shaping points. I create my routes in Basecamp by setting waypoints on the roads I want to ride. Eventually I will set most of them to non-alerting but I want Via points sprinkled throughout my routes. I have experienced a few occasions where I needed to restart a route and choosing "Closest Entry Point" would take me backwards. Only Via points can be selected as entry points so always having one somewhere ahead has proven valuable. I don't understand the "I didn't know where I was" comment though. Physical location is shown on the map. Info about the remainder of the trip should be readily available, whether as time or distance to the end point, or as the ETA.

Thank you Peobody,

My “I didn’t know where I was” claim is rather loose (unhelpful), so I would like to withdraw it and clarify.

What I should have written is that the XT was not keeping me informed of upcoming points along my Route, and this is because I had placed only route Shaping Points (non-alerting Waypoint) If I had Via Points (alerting Waypoints), I would see them coming up (time/distance) on the XT, I assume. I like would that.

Are there any flaws in my thinking above?

I desperately need more XT saddle time, and when our current pesky, persistent Cyclone removes itself, I will be out.

Thank you, Mikey

Mikey wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 9:38 pm Are there any flaws in my thinking above?

Let's hope @jfheath contributes here because he has mentioned his pillion rider being appreciative of seeing upcoming points. As for me, I don't care about that, except sometimes wondering how far it is to a lunch stop. Otherwise the important things to me are where I am and ETA at the destination.

A great thing about this site is that you get exposed to (advice?) a variety of ways that folks utilize Basecamp and their device. You then get to try different options and methods until you settle on what works best for you. One method definitely does not fit all.

My preference before the XT2 was a mix of shaping points ie wanted to go along that road and via / way points ie something I might want to do / look at / get fuel at. Less shaping points were needed prior to the XT.

Now I'm using the XT2 which messes with shaping points in synchronisation with Tread, I just use via / way points as it's more stable for me.

Still use Basecamp though. Certainly for 99% generation of via / way points and 95% of routes. Those routes produces in Tread are 99% made with way points from Basecamp.

Mikey wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 9:38 pm
What I should have written is that the XT was not keeping me informed of upcoming points along my Route, and this is because I had placed only route Shaping Points (non-alerting Waypoint) If I had Via Points (alerting Waypoints), I would see them coming up (time/distance) on the XT, I assume. I like would that.

Are there any flaws in my thinking above?

If you want the upcoming points to be displayed - (say distance to, time to etc in the trip data that you can display on the right of the landscape screen - it will show only the data to the next Via Point. (Alerting Route points).

To get this - you don't have to be using Waypoints. Any route point that is set as a Via Point can be shown.

The image shows Time of arrival at the next Via (orange flag)
Distance to the next Via
Distance to the end of the route.
ETA for the end of the route.

All four of those 'buttons' can be changed to show what you want from quite a large list.

(The yellow '1' is becasue I pinched the image from one of my other pages on this website.



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Now for the question that you didn't ask.


There is one other flaw - which will be the reason why you will probably not understand my answer above.

I think you are misunderstanding the term 'Waypoint'.

We are talking Garmin - so we try to use Garmin's terminology.

Route point is the term used to refer to any point on a route. It is coded as <rtept ....> in the gpx files.
Each route point is subsequently defined either as a ShapingPoint or as a ViaPoint

A Waypoint is a point that you create separately from the route. You create it and save it. You can store with it additional information. Typically a detailed address, post code and phone number. Which is very handy, 'cos if you have such a point in your Zumo, you can show it on the screen and ask the Zumo to call the number. Subsequently you can add a Waypoint to your route. The same name is copied and the same lat/long coordinates are copied to the route. It defaults to being set as a Via Point, but like all other route points, it can be set as either a shaping point or as a Via point.

So a Via Point is not the same as a Waypoint. A waypoint is not the same as a Via Point.
Neither is a Shaping point the same as a Waypoint (and vice versa).

As far as a route is concerned, all we are interested in is whether a route point is a shaping point or a via point.

But only points that were created and saved as Waypoints in Basecamp are put into the area accessed by Favourites (UK) / Saved (USA) / Waypoints (XT2)

You can build a route quite happily with no Waypoints in it at all. Lots of route points, but no Waypoints.

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The issue is compounded because many people do not like Basecamp. And they pick up the language used by programs like MyRouteApp.

They use the term 'waypoint' to mean any point on a route. They too use the terms Via and Shaping points. But they are also consistent in pointing out that any of their waypoints (route point) can be set as a Via or as a Shaping. So I have not seen anywere that states a Via Point is the same as a Waypoint. A waypoint can be used in a route and set as a Via Point. But it can also be used in route and set as a shaping point.

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The problem when answering questions is when people say that they have a route with a Waypoint in it - what do they mean
Do they mean they have a route point set as a Via point (which is common)
Do they mean they ahve a route point set as a Shaping point (seen recently of FB)
Do they mean that they have created a route point with the flag tool (which is the correct interpretation if we are talking BC)
Do they mean they have created a waypoint in Explore or in Tread (possible, but not relevant in this case).

Why does this matter ?

Well - Genuine Waypoints (Garmin definition) behave very differently in a route situation.
They keep the name that they were given
They do not move
They are stored in the Favourites / Saved area
They are stripped out of the GPX file if they are placed in internal storage.
They are not available to import if they are on the SD card (unless you have at least on waypoint in internal storage).
If they are in internal storage and are deleted, they can not be re-imported.

And if used in an XT2 and it is set as a Via Point (say), and the Via Point is moved by the XT2 or by the Tread App - they become two points - the Via point in a new loaction on a slightly moved route. And a Waypoint which has satyed in position, but which the route no longer visits. Oh yes. Sorry sir, did you want to go to your hotel on that quiet little back road ? Sorry, we've moved the route onto a motorway. You'll have to find your own way.

I exaggerate. But not much.

And most commonly - many people think that a waypoint is the same thing as a via point. Which it isn't. In my well planned long tours I use waypoints a lot - purely so that they keep their name and location - but most of them are set as shaping points.

Does it really matter ?

No not really. Call things what you like.