Zumo User Forums

Peobody wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:26 pm I'm just annoyed that I can't import BC routes without some of them being calculated.

Having worked in IT for 40+ years i know the feeling. If you have a GPX that recalculates on import I invite you to send it to me, I can have a look. Maybe I see something. (Send a PM if you prefer) I will not actually import it, because I dont have the US maps.

Peobody wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:26 pm Here is a question: Knowing that the import process includes recording each via point as a Favourite, does anyone have a sense about how much longer it takes to import a route that has three via points as compared to one that has twenty?

It should be fast. 20 is no problem, blink of an eye.

Peobody wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:26 pm Thanks @FrankB. All known, all triple checked. Yes, I now transfer route and track, and then compare after import. I'm just annoyed that I can't import BC routes without some of them being calculated.

If routes have been recalculated in Basecamp with the same maps as on the XT, and all options in Device Transfer are unticked, then my routes never recalculate. I do still get the 'calculating' message, but that is to do with reading the files and extracting waypoint and other information, date/time distance, building .trip file information. It isn't recalculating the route. This takes just a few seconds. Recalculating the route takes much longer.

Peobody wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:26 pm ....Knowing that the import process includes recording each via point as a Favourite....

No, it doesn't do that for via points. It does it for points that were created in Basecamp as Waypoints - using the flag tool.
Waypoints can be set as either Via or Shaping. It doesn't matter, if they were first created as waypoints, then they are added to favourires - on transfer to internal storeage.

Ad hoc route points created with the route tool, or with the insert tool - these points do not appear in the BC lower left window. These can also be set as via or shaping. None of these points appear in Favourites (or 'Saved').

Because the XT and 595 rename many ad hoc route points, but never waypoints, I have started using a lot more waypoints in my routes - simply so that they retain the name that I give them. Mostly, these are set as shaping points in the route. In the early the days of working out what was going on with what I later called the RUT behaviour, it was important to know which point the XT was heading for. I had to use all Waypoints so that I could give the points a name with a sequence number and not have the XT change it. Nevertheless, I could still spot when the XT was recalculating a route and when it was just organising data From the length of time it took. Tens of seconds for recalc, a few seconds for organising.

You have to be careful what you are observing.

If you change the rouitng preferences and avoidances in Basecamp then it produces a route that takes those avoidances into account.
The route itself consists of thousands of 'ghost' points which pin the route that it has calculated onto particular roads. And all of that information is passed to the Zumo.

If the Zumo does not recalculate the route then the route that Basecamp created is preserved exactly. So yes - it will appear as though the avoidances in Basecamp are transferred to the XT. Providing the route is not recalculated by the Zumo. But only because the route has remained as it was sent from Basecamp.

If the route is recalculated, then the Zumo only has its own set of preferences to go on, and it will use those. It retains the information about eg Faster Time and Motorcycle. But that is all. It will use the preferences that you have set in your Zumo for motorcycle in order to produce the recalculated route. So if you have a route that (say) avoids ferries in BAsecamp, the route will be plotted to avoid ferries, and the Zumo route will be the same if it doesn't recalculate. If you do not avoid ferries on the Zumo, and the Zumo recalculates the route, then it is at liberty to use a ferry.
That would be an easy test to carry out and it would very stronlgly suggest that the ferry avoidance requirement set in Basecamp is not transmitted with the route.

How do you know if a route has been recalculated ? You cannot rely on the message at the start - it says calculating - but it doesn't mean that it is calculating the route. There are ways to test whether or not the route has been recalculated, but I won't go into that here. I've documented it in the links I provided earlier. The simplest way it to have Basecamp produce a track of the route and display the route and track on screen at the same time. If they separate at any point, then the route has definitely been recalculated.

I suppose that it is possible that some avoidance info is passed within the subclass line that appears with each via point of the GPX file. I don't know. It seems unlikely to me, as most of that data that we know about in that subclass line is to do with road information obtained from the map. Also because in all of the tests that I have carried out and documented, there has been nothing to suggest it. But I have never specifically checked that as a posibility, but it would be easy enough to carry out a simple test.

To add to the thinking on BC customised routes:

BC uses settings for routes which are stored in 'Profiles'. This is a facility that is available in Basecamp that saves having to set up your preferences for every single route. You set up a profile for motorcycling and use that for as many routes as you wish. The problem with this is that if you change one of the settings in the profile, then every route that uses that profile has to be recalculated. It does this as soon as you have finished editing, and can take a very long time to complete.

A customised route does not use the settings stored in a BC profile. It uses the settings that are stored in a separate location linked to your route. So if you make a change, BC doesn't have to go away and recalculate a load of other routes. These settings are a one-off.

But these settings have nothing to do with the information that is sent to the Zumo either by USB cable or as a gpx file. They are used to give BC the means to calculate the route in the way that you wish. Once the route is sent to the Zumo or a Gpx file it sends your plotted route points (icluding any saved waypoints), the 'ghost' points, and information about each section of road taken from the map files - eg speed limit, class of road, dual carriageway, length of this section, direction, ..... etc. This is the Subclass data, abouth which @FrankB is more qualified to talk than I am.

It is within this data that there was an outside chance that and avoidances could be hiding.

Two additional pieces of information about the route are sent in the GPX file: The routing preferences (faster/shorter/direct) and the transportation mode used (Motorcycling/Car). If the Zumo has to recalculate the route fro any reason, this gives the Zumo its best chance of producing soething similar. It tells the Zumo it is a motorcycle, that it is using Faster time, and if there are motorcycle settings for avoidances already stored int he ZUmo, then it should use those. But the settings for avoidances from Basecamp are not sent with the route.

To verify this:

I just checked out three versions of the same route :-
1 Using the motorcycle profile;
2 a custom profile with no avoidances set;
3 a custom profile with all avoidance check boxes set.


I chose a route which I knew could not be altered - no matter what avoidances or road types were ticked in the Basecamp settings.
A circuit where no other roads could be used. I wanted to see if there was any significant difference between the gpx file that was produced for each of the 3 routes by comparing the gpx files. If the calculated route was different each time, I would not be able to spot the avoidance data - if it existed.



The only difference in the 991 lines of the gpx file was the time, the route name and the 3 lines describing the profile name used in Basecamp to create the route. This name is used to switch the Zumo into the correct mode when tthe route is loaded. The first route had the three line, the other two did not.

This wasn't just a casual glance - I loaded the three files into a spreadsheets - made sure that the corresponding lines aligned correctly and got the spreadhseet to do comparisons between the text on the same line in each of the three gpx files. Everything was identical apart from the 3 things that I have mentioned. If the avoidance info was being sent to the Zumo with the route / gpx file - there would have been differences between at least two of the routes. The customised routes were absolutley identical except for the name and the time.

I still reckon that if the routes are behaving differently when changing those settings after being calculated by the XT, then there has to be some other reason for it. I can think of many possibilities - and it is why - when testing RUT behaviour, I had to clear out my XT and perform a complete system reset before each separate test.

Peobody wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:26 pm I'm just annoyed that I can't import BC routes without some of them being calculated.

I am following up on my above comment to state that I have just successfully imported seven BC created routes without any of them calculating during import. Something I did differently during route creation was to move every POI via point (restaurants, ferry terminals, scenic stops, hotels) onto the road from which they would be entranced. There was no route point in any of the routes that was off a road.

Question @Peobody

When you use a POI obtained from the Zumo's database of POIs (eg 4square), does that point get stored as a favourite ?

I used to think that searching the 'excellent' POI database in Basecamp added a Waypoint, but it doesn't. Not automatically anyway - but it does give the option.

I don't use these sources a great deal - most times that I have, the information has been out of date, or incorrect. In particular, hotel locations are not located accurately enough to just roll up. Very useful for saving the hotel details - address, phone number etc. But I always check so that I can read the signs and ride the road on street view, and accurately locate a parking place in satellite view.

Never was this proved to be more useful than on a trip to the black forest in Germany. Basecamp wouldn't route me. The Zumo 590 wouldn't route me to the hotel in Titisee. So I drove down the roads on street view at hime when I was studying the route. The reason was that the road to the hotel was pedestrianised. The 'No Entry' signs were very clear, with something that I couldn't understand underneath.

It said something to the effect of 'unless you are staying at a hotel, please have your reservation available if asked'. And yes we were asked.
Remembering to fit a pillion is always useful in such circumstances !

I'm glad that I didn't have to work that out on my bike, at the end of a long ride, in the pouring rain.

jfheath wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:45 pm When you use a POI obtained from the Zumo's database of POIs (eg 4square), does that point get stored as a favourite ?

IDK. I have used the up ahead feature on occasion to find food or fuel, sometimes adding it as a next stop, sometimes creating a new route to it. I don't recall ever seeing one added as a favourite but I may not have noticed. I despise the accumulation of POI's that are not 'favourites' so do mass deletions pretty regularly. Like you, I have found the POI info in the XT to be unreliable, but what else can we do if there aren't any locals around to ask.

jfheath wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:45 pm I used to think that searching the 'excellent' POI database in Basecamp added a Waypoint, but it doesn't. Not automatically anyway - but it does give the option.

This is what I rely on, confirming what I find with Google Maps before adding one as a Waypoint. Google Maps street view comes in handy in determining whether a place is one I care to stop, and when BaseCamp and Google Maps disagree about a location. I noticed that the coordinates of a POI found in a BC search, or by using the highest map detail, can be positioned on the building according to Google Maps. This made me wonder whether such a POI would cause the XT to have to have to think (eg: calculate) during import which is why I moved then onto the road.

jfheath wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:45 pm The Zumo 590 wouldn't route me to the hotel in Titisee. So I drove down the roads on street view at home when I was studying the route.

I assume this was many years ago, before Germany banned streetview.

colirv wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:39 am I assume this was many years ago, before Germany banned streetview.

Actually they un-banned it now. But the coverage still leaves a lot to be desired.

Peobody wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 5:10 pm I have done the same and come to the same conclusion. Having the track on the map, as @jfheath mentioned, makes is easy to see when a recalc results in a deviation from the intended route. When that happens, your options are to manually follow the track or to restart the route.

I even had the opportunity to plug the ZumoXT into a Windows PC and to enter system files (can't remember which ones right now), then I could configurate the width and the color of wether (either ?) the route or the track, so that the route (wider) is seen "under" the track (thiner). Very pleasant, actually.