Zumo User Forums

Hi all, new user with a problem here. I have looked around but I have not found anything on my *specific* issue.

I am looking for a way to create motorbike tours that I can export to my Zumo XT with a *limited* series of *named* waypoints, *created and named by me*. Say, a Tour of the Cotswolds where the waypoints are called, by me, "Stow", "Chipping Campden", "Broadway" and so on. I can't find a way to do it.

The reason I want to do the above is that it gives me better orientation and flexibility on what to do during the ride. Garmin saves a maximum of 29 waypoints for a trip, which is aplenty for a day tour.

Below is what I have tried, and has *not* worked, up to now.

1) I created a tour on Calimoto and exported it on the Zumo XT. The Zumo proceeded to create 7 tours with 29 waypoints each. Very unpractical.

2) Then I tried to do the same, but choosing the Garmin options to use "shaping points" instead of waypoints. I got all in one tour, but with only coordinates, no names of the location.

3) Then I tried to export a tour as "track" and, from the device, convert the track into a Tour. Again, you get one tour instead of seven, but the only points it shows are "beginning" and "end", so no waypoint at all.

Is there are any way (free of paying subscription) to have it the way I have described it above?

Many thanks in advance!

Omobono

The restriction isn't for 29 Wapoints. It is for Via Points, and even then, you can exceed it - not that you would want to - the XT will simply break your route into two or more parts.

Waypoints to Garmin devices serve a very particular purpose, as you will see.

Other software uses terms differently from Garmin. They have adopted the same term to mean something different.

It is worthwhile reading this and fully understanding Garmin's terms and then asking the question again.

The terms Waypoint, Via Point, and Shaping Point all have a specific meaning and behaviour in Xt routes. If your routing software doesn't make such distinctions, then if you read the link below, that will help you to identify how the XT is treating the individual route points. (I tend to use the term Route Point when I don't know or it doesn't matter. Or I need to avoid the incorrect use of the term Waypoint).


app.php/ZXT-P04

Hello Omobono

I like Calimoto. Because it offers a lot of interesting routes, at least in the Netherlands and Germany where I live. But because of the limitations (see below) I always recreate the route in Basecamp, and some tools of Javawa, to get it working correctly on the Zumo XT.

Limitations:

- I am unsure what Map Calimoto uses, in the top left corner it shows 'OpenStreetMap. But certainly it is not City Navigator. And even if it was City Navigator, very unlikely the same version as on the XT.
- Calimoto makes no distinction between Shaping and Via points. (Shaping are DONT alert on arrival, Via's are DO alert)
- The exported GPX file contains only:
- The starting, ending and via points that you created in Calimoto as Waypoints. Standalone, not part of route.
- A track. This track is more or less usable on the XT, but has no Via, or shaping points.
- A route. But... This route does not have the Via Points that you created in Calimoto, but instead it puts 'Intelligent via points' on every junction/roundabout. I say Intelligent because that is the term that Calimoto uses, but I think they are on the worst place were they can be. (See the 2 attached images) So if you ask me. Use Calimoto to get good ideas (use the routes that they offer as a starting point for your own routes), but dont use it as a route planner for the XT. If you dont like Basecamp try Kurviger (https://kurviger.de/it) or Myroute (https://www.myrouteapp.com), although they also have there limitations.

Thanks @FrankB for the description of Calimoto. I have never used it, but it is common for other routing software not to address the distinction between via points and shaping points that Garmin uses. MyRouteApp does, and it addresses the Garmin Waypoint / Saved / Favourites issues with its POI library. Not quite the same as Garmins POIs, but close enough for most purposes.

The track facility in Calimoto may be of some use to the XT. Although drawn with different maps it may create issues. However -

The track that you convert to a trip on the XT works well. It displays like a magenta route on the XT screen.

There are no fixed individual points, but the route does not alter ir get recalculated. It stays where it is.
It issues turn by turn directions, just like a route.
If you deviate from the route one of two things will happen:
If you have auto recalculate turned off, the XT will go quiet until you rejoin the magenta line.
If you have auto recalc turned on, then the XT finds the closest point on the route to your current position, and navigates you to that point. It feels like the route has been recalculated, but it is only the section that takes you back to the original.

There are no route points of reference so the data display cannot give eg distance to next via.

More info here.
app.php/ZXT-P53

Many, many thanks to everybody!

After reading the "guide", I will try to stay with the Garmin naming conventions.

Yesterday I went out on the bike and tried the "shaping points", "only start and end" trip. This trip had been created on Kurviger and then exported on Calimoto (I don't remember why, I think I wanted to have it saved on my favourites there for reference).

It worked (badly) as advertised: a Magenta line going on endlessly and with points I could not (or so I think) use to ride there, like you do with a route point. To make things worse (no idea if this is to do with Kurviger or with the fact that I had moved the Kurviger file to Calimoto) at one point the route insisted on taking me through a huge field (not an unpaved road, a real field) for a mile or more. When I (obviously) went along the road, the satnav recalculated and wanted me to absolutely get somewhere in the middle of the field. The shaping point option is clearly not for me.

Then I tried, this morning on my PC, the webversion of MyRoute and, up to now, it is a revelation! I picked a place where I want to ride today and created a mini-trip with some 15 route points, individually renamed by me. I then saved the .gpx file on my computer, transferred it on my Zumo XT and looked at how it looks on the satnav. It looks gorgeous, with only my 15 route points there (Calimoto would, I think, have given me around 100, with the need to "delete" most of them but the one I want to keep), and with every route point beautifully described in the device as the name I gave it, plus the coordinates.

Weather permitting, I will try it this afternoon and report on the results, but I am very optimistic that it will work a treat!

The only function I would like now is a Google Map-like function, where I can click on the road I want to select and see a picture/camera still of how it looks in order to be sure the road is after my liking. But I can use a parallel tab with Google Maps for that.

Many thanks to everybody again!

Omobono

I know that Calimoto is good for when using a phone. And it's paid (more than others 3rd party ones). But moving file from one software to another to Garmin... I see no point. To plan routes on PC I used Furkot. I tried to use Basecamp but backed off several times thinking it's not user friendly. And it's not if without a little learning curve.
At one point I found a youtube video from EZ Moto Tim. After 4 initial videos my eyes opened up and it looked much more simple than I thought.
Now I think that Basecamp is the best tool to plan routes. Not 100% perfect (nothing is) but very structured and not as hard to use as many think.
Roads are very well presented all the way to small minor roads on a wide field of view.
I do use Google maps to look up the road photos.

Thanks Fxwheels, I will have to try both the options that you mention (included the dreaded Basecamp; I tried once, and then I found myself thinking "why am I doing this to myself? There must be a simpler way?" I will watch the Youtube videos you mentioned and see where I get.

As to MyRoute, I tried yesterday and it wasn't as expected.

Whilst the names of Route points all appear neatly in the trip, with the name you have given them, *they disappear when you start the navigation*, as in: they do not appear as destinations which you can select as alternative trip start points, and they do not appear as little flags when you are approaching them; in their stead, I have small light blue/aqua marina points along the magenta line, indicating (but with no explicit "notice" or names) that I have reached and am riding over one of the route points I had programmed.

If I wander out of the trip (which I do fairly often, as I don't want to be the prisoner of my trip) and want to get back to it, I don't get a list of the locations I had programmed, but merely the option of the "nearest point" where I can rejoin the route; which is somewhat useful, but not really, as in close-knit routes the nearest point can be too near the beginning or the end of the trip. Still, it worked somewhat, but I would like to have something better if I can. Therefore, I will look at the options you mention.

Thanks again
Omobono

I agree with FxWheels that Basecamp is the best when you use a PC/Laptop.
Please also look at the excellent document that Jfheath prepared. 'Zumo XT and Basecamp, everything that you need to know' on top of this forum.

What you said about the XT directing you to the middle of a field, typically happens when a) you are not using good maps b) you are using different maps on your planner than the XT. c) You place your Via point wrong. Not precisely on the road.
Using Basecamp these problems can be overcome, with other software it is questionable.

For a Viapoint to show up on the Xt to select as a destination it needs to be 'Alert on arrival' in Basecamp! This is what Jfheath calls a Via point. You are using (I think) Shaping points, or 'dont alert on arrival'.

All good stuff @FrankB

FrankB wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:49 am This is what Jfheath calls a Via point

It's not just me - This is how Garmin defined them too - links: Via Point / Shaping Points / Way Points

The Via Point definition no longer mentions alerting on arrival, but the Shaping point definition includes instructions on how to make a Via Point into a non alerting (shaping point) - so it still strongly suggests that a Via Point is a route point that alerts. It used to be more explicit than that, but I note that Garmin seem to be moving away from calling them Via Points, and encouraging them to be thought of as 'Destinations'. Doesn't matter, they still alert.

The Via Point link now no longer exists - but I found an historic copy of it here - dated 16th April 2021.

In the old version of the software (2012) there were no shaping points, but all via points which were all announced although it did not make you go there (like with current shaping pts). You could have 50 vias and then the Favorites (current waypoints. btw many new users think that via point and waypoint are the same thing just a different wording). It was too easy to use. And if to start from the middle, it would really lead you to the "nearest route entry" in direction you go.
The newer system requires little learning curve and the added complexity opens a room for errors which aren't yet sorted out.