Zumo User Forums

OK sorry for this daft story as my first post.

Touring through France following a route I created in basecamp the night before. All going well until approaching a village where I will enter a big dual carriageway ( D/C ). I had put a waypoint in the village and then one on the D/C a mile or so further on. But the D/C on slip road is closed so I follow the diversion ( sadly starting BEFORE the waypoint in the village ) and skip the next waypoint. Hit the spanner and look at waypoints and the one after the one I just skipped just says the name of the D/C - so I carry on around the ( long ) detour as no idea where it is. 45mins later I am back at the D/C and ... you see what's coming .. follow the garmin the wrong way BACK to the village junction, where I cant turn around as the slip road is closed in the opposite direction.

The only solution I could think of was to mark every waypoint on my backup maps but its a pain and ruins the maps. Is there anyway I can avoid this sort of mistake again? Do people only add waypoints a minimum distance apart or never near junctions or is there a way of changing a waypoint name in basecamp.

Luckily for me I was on my own on a sunny day and in no hurry, but will be leading 4 other bikers on a similar trip this year and this could cause utter mayhem & embarrassment.

Think this is answered. Following a suggestion elsewhere it looks like the change route -> detour by distance would solve this sort of issue.

There is a different way to address this issue which does not require you to stop and press buttons on the screen. It is to do with how you create your route in Basecamp.

That is to choose the type of route points strategically. You can have Via Points and Shaping points in your route. Via Points will announce as you approach and arrive. Shaping points will not. But crucially - you MUST visit Via Points (unless you decide to Skip the point) - otherwise the Zumo will do exactly as you describe. So if you do detour and you pass a Via Point - the Zumo will take you back to it.

Shaping points are a bit different. If you detour, the satanv still will navigate you back to the missed point - BUT - if you rejoin the plotted magenta line after a missed Shaping point, it will continue to navigate you ahead without taking you back. (But if you also pass a Via Point on your detour, it will take you back to the first route point that you missed.)

So to get the benefit of this, it is often better to use your Via Points sparingly. Have them at places that you know you will definitely pass through. Eg start, end, and coffee / lunch breaks. Make the rest shaping points. Or something similar to that. Via Points have some real advantages, but they are less forgiving that Shaping Points.

In your situation, detouring and missing a shaping points will still result in the satnav nagging you to go back - until you rejoin the magenta line after the point. There are a few ways of dealing with this on the road.

1. Turn off the sound !
2. Just ignore it.
3. Turn off automatic recalculation. In this case the magenta line will stay in place on the map - with your vehicle icon possibly somewhere else. By zooming out, you will be able to see where you are in relation to the original route. But the satnav will not utter another word to you until you find your own way back to the magenta line. At that point, the Zumo will spring back into life and start talking again - navigating you along the magenta line - as long as you haven't by-passed any flags (Via Points) while you were going ride-about.

I've written a few help pages for this sort of thing on this site - but the pages are written specifically for the Zumo XT. However, the first three sections are probably (mostly) relevant to your 346. I don't know the 346, but I've checked the manual and as far as I can tell it is similar to the 590 and 595. But Page 1.5 is specific to the XT as it describes 6 different ways of navigating, some of which only came out with the XT. There are a few other references that are XT specific, but you will probably spot those. Most of the info is generic and relevant to all Zumos with the Trip Planner app. (ie not the 660, 665, 550 and earlier models).

Here's a quick run down of the important pieces of info that you are missing.

FIrst of all - the terminology has to be correct. For Garmin devices, a Waypoint is not simply a point that is used to build up a route. Many people use 'waypoint' like that, but for Garmin and Basecamp, it is something different. For Garmin, a Waypoint is a location that has been saved for future use. You may use a Waypoint as a route point in your route or you can just place them on the map as markers. Or not use them at all and keep them stored handy for later use. Waypoints will appear in the Favourites App on your Zumo.

See some definitions here on Page 1.4

Any point in a route (whether it was first created as a Waypoint or not) must be set as either a Via Point or a Shaping Point. Via Points appear on the route map ont he Zumo as flags. Shaping points appear as small circles. In Basecamp, you can set each point on a route as Alerting, or Not Alerting. Those that alert on arrival are Via Points. Those that do not alert on arrival are shaping points.

More detail about these is given on Page 1.7 here and Page 1.8 here

Feel free to browse the other pages - but some of them will talk about features that are not present on your 346. Page 1.5 is one of these - it talks about 6 different ways of using the XT to Navigate. I guess that most of these features will not exist on the 346.


I've written a whole section about Basecamp here, and subsequent pages.

I have never set eyes on a 346 - but I think that the link below will be of some use to you. The post links to a document that I wrote and posted on the Issuu publishing site. This document was written initially for the Zumos 590 and 595. But I think that that most of it will be relevant to your model.

viewtopic.php?t=521

Click the Issuu link in that first post. It is best viewed in full screen. You may have to set up a free issuu account, but didn't have to the last time that I checked. Have a browse, if you think that it applies to your 346, then you are welcome to have a personal copy of the pdf file. Send me a nice polite private message with a cheery greeting and your name and an email address. I'll send the pdf as soon as I read it.

Grumly wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:10 pm OK sorry for this daft story as my first post.

Touring through France following a route I created in basecamp the night before. All going well until approaching a village where I will enter a big dual carriageway ( D/C ). I had put a waypoint in the village and then one on the D/C a mile or so further on. But the D/C on slip road is closed so I follow the diversion ( sadly starting BEFORE the waypoint in the village ) and skip the next waypoint. Hit the spanner and look at waypoints and the one after the one I just skipped just says the name of the D/C - so I carry on around the ( long ) detour as no idea where it is. 45mins later I am back at the D/C and ... you see what's coming .. follow the garmin the wrong way BACK to the village junction, where I cant turn around as the slip road is closed in the opposite direction.

The only solution I could think of was to mark every waypoint on my backup maps but its a pain and ruins the maps. Is there anyway I can avoid this sort of mistake again? Do people only add waypoints a minimum distance apart or never near junctions or is there a way of changing a waypoint name in basecamp.

Luckily for me I was on my own on a sunny day and in no hurry, but will be leading 4 other bikers on a similar trip this year and this could cause utter mayhem & embarrassment.

By saying "waypoint" I assume that you mean a "Via Point", right? And when you say "and skip the next waypoint" do you mean you just bypassed, or actually pressed the pop-up message asking if you want to skip it?
Because based on these actions, the nav will act differently. Also, to add the complexity, you've deviated from your route. Big "headache" for Zumo. Outside of its planned route, Zumo doesn't handle complex situations well.

You can't "afford" making U-turns or returning to the places you already passed, when leading a group.
As @jfheath said, turn off auto recalculation so Zumo won't distract you with rerouting. Always have a track displayed on the map. I have it in red color for better visibility.

Edit:
If this (above) situation arise - few options:

1. Zoom out the screen (this is easier to do in "North Up" setup instead of 3D screen) and move towards your line on the screen, monitoring your progress, to somewhere ahead of you at the point where you think the road is opened up. Rejoin the route.
Or
2. Drop a pin at your route line up ahead and press Go. It will bring you back to your route. Dropping a pin is good if you somewhere away off the route, or it can take you through the same closed off section.
Or
3. If nothing works - x-out the route and find your track (also better in "North Up" to see on a larger view). Drop a pin on your track and Go. It will bring you back to your track (Also make sure not thru the closed off section). At that point you can restart the route from the next via point (if it is near you), or as I would do, just follow the track. Track will never let you down. The drawback is that you need to closely monitor it for not jumping the turn as you don't have spoken directions. (or your group won't be happy ).

Option 1 it the simplest, but if you get lost (not likely if you see where your route line is), switch to #2.
I used #1 many times and nobody even noticed that I'm not sure how to go around the detour .

I tried detour by miles but Garmin acted strangely so to say. Keep in mind that a Detour (change route sign <=>) will still want you to visit the via point even if it's inside of a detour. So when you hit the magenta line, look at the larger map in order not to turn the wrong way where the via is.
More of the via points - I put them only for a specific purpose. Lunch/coffee stop, or a place I do need to visit. I also have mileage or time to it (next via point) set on the screen.
If you have time, practice some odd situation to see how Garmin handles them and how you can tackle them.

Hope it helps.

Guys I just wanted to post thank you so much for this great information. It will take me time to digest, understand and try and work it out.

I understand my use of terms is incorrect and my knowledge of the whole process is vague, hence I am trying to learn so thank you for your patience and kindness. I want to create a route from paper maps so that I can pick EXACTLY the roads I use ( ie with the green highlight or places of interest to me ).

I realize I am generating Routes in basecamp, not tracks. I click new route icon and then close the window where I can define start/stop with locations and simply click on where I want to start on the map. Then keep clicking along the map to build the route until I get to my destination. I realise these are not waypoints ( I think they are defined by flags and saved separately for use with other routes/journeys such as cafes or some such ) but not sure if these are via points. I can have up to 50 or 60 for a long days ride.

I had a play with detour by distance and set it to 1/2, 2 and 10 miles on a track starting from home and it seemed to work as expected, but I am sure that may not be the case in the real world when its wet and 4 other bikers are sitting around me waving their arms about.

So again thank you so much for this information, looks like some serious study time is needed but I have got 4 months to practise on every trip ( starting tomorrow ).

Grumly

Grumly wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:16 pm
I realize I am generating Routes in basecamp, not tracks. I click new route icon and then close the window where I can define start/stop with locations and simply click on where I want to start on the map. Then keep clicking along the map to build the route until I get to my destination. I realise these are not waypoints ( I think they are defined by flags and saved separately for use with other routes/journeys such as cafes or some such ) but not sure if these are via points. I can have up to 50 or 60 for a long days ride.

Grumly

Doing that can drive you crazy! One little mistake and you'll likely have to start over. Try this:

Pick your start and end points, press ESC, and let Base Camp decide the route. Now, using the edit tools INSERT, MOVE and ERASE, place points where you want the route to go. Couple hints:

- never place your start where you are. Make it down the road in direction of travel about 1/2 mile,
- never place points in an intersection. Place them about 1/4 mile after the intersection,
- when completed, double click the route name in the bottom left pane. Box opens, tick CENTER OF MAP box. Go down the list of points one by one and using the MOVE edit tool place them EXACTLY where you want them to be,
- if planning a loop, do not use the same point for the start and end. I tend to use 2 different routes- 1 out and the other back. This applies especially if the route crosses itself,
- something a wise man told me, "can you delete any point and have your route stay the same? If not then you aren't using enough points."

This is not an all inclusive list, just the most important ones IMHO for beginners.

Thanks again guys. Recreated some of the routes that have taken hours of work to create in ... minutes ... using this advice ( instead of adding shaping points one by one then ending up splitting the route and redoing sections due to a tiny mistake ). Added the 4 hotels as `waypoints` so if it goes wrong I can just select that and say go there. The crossing and don't start/stop at the same place are things I have learnt from bitter experience plus not putting shaping points on a junction. Also was advised about using only north up ( and only a car as the vehicle ) and getting used to it last year by a friend. So hopefully with lots of practise I will have easier trips to France this year. Again many thanks, this sort of help makes this forum is a very valuable resource.

Not sure why you would use North up? Makes navigation quite tricky.

Track Up is easy, but I've found that after travelling through an unfamiliar area I have no idea where I've been.

We spent four days visiting relatives and sightseeing in a large city, following the GPS in Track Up mode everywhere we went. For breakfast on the last day we wanted to re-visit a good restaurant that was about five miles away from the hotel. We had eaten there earlier, and driven past it at least twice more on other excursions, so I thought I could find it without the GPS. NO. Wrong turn after wrong turn after wrong turn (I'm stubborn) before I turned on the GPS. All the roads we travelled looked familiar, but I did not have the connections in my head to put them in their proper relation to one another.

My brother (a real estate agent constantly visiting new locations) suggested using North Up, and I found that it does give me a better mental picture of where I am. Initially it takes a little more thought, but that quickly becomes a new normal view. It forces me to think of my position in relation to the world, instead of the world spinning around me.

I found North Up odd at first but if ( when ) things go a bit wrong and I am starting to not trust what I am seeing and getting disorientated as to where a long detour is taking me, you can easily see straight away if the roads from a turning then take you towards where you want to go. It also ties in with the North up of the backup map on my tank bag with which I have been touring through Europe for 40 odd years so pretty used to that style.

I think this will work well with the suggestion to `drop a pin back` onto the route, when I have worked out how to do that.