Zumo User Forums

Am wondering if anyone else has seen this issue & if there is a known work around / fix

When passing a Via point, my XT will sometimes popup a display on the right of the screen with some route info similar to this

It does not seem to do it for every Via point, why it does for some & not others I do not know?

The issue I see is sometimes it seems to fails to calculate & all I see is a blue spinning disc

When the route info is displayed correctly the popup window closes automatically after a few seconds which is fine.
I would not find it a problem if the popup window with the blue spinning disc closed automatically but it does not, it remains persistent & requires to be closed manually via the X

It would be nice to know what is causing the calculations to fail or if there is a way to prevent the segment calculations poping up?

Mine does this as well. I don't have an answer to the why question.

BMcG wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 7:38 pm Am wondering if anyone else has seen this issue & if there is a known work around / fix

When passing a Via point, my XT will sometimes popup a display on the right of the screen with some route info similar to this

It does not seem to do it for every Via point, why it does for some & not others I do not know?

I've seen this too. The correlation I've noticed:

Sometimes a via point is just a point on an existing route. In this case there's no info pop-up. BUT, sometimes a via point begins a new "sub-route". Ever noticed that the route you're riding is bright magenta and up ahead past a point the route is shown as dull magenta? This is what I mean- a sub-route begins at that via point and this is where the info shows up, just as if a "new" route is beginning.

BMcG wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 7:38 pm The issue I see is sometimes it seems to fails to calculate & all I see is a blue spinning disc

When the route info is displayed correctly the popup window closes automatically after a few seconds which is fine.
I would not find it a problem if the popup window with the blue spinning disc closed automatically but it does not, it remains persistent & requires to be closed manually via the X

It would be nice to know what is causing the calculations to fail or if there is a way to prevent the segment calculations poping up?

I see this too, but only when I'm way out in the boondocks with lots of mountains and trees overhanging. To me it's like the XT just isn't getting the info it needs for the display in a timely manner. Just like when my computer is busy updating and I'm on the web. It gets really slow and sometimes crawls to a stop. I just hit the X on the screen and go on with it.

I believe that each 'segment' is bounded by the Via Points (Orange flags).

I'm wondering how far ahead it is having to look. The route has 185 miles to go. How many points ahead are Via Points ?

What happens if you break it into shorter segments.

You shouldn't have to, but it's worth finding out.

Also check that all of your route points are actually on the road.

Just suggestions - 'cos I don't know the answer. But these are likely suspects.

Thanks for the replies, I thought it may be something wrong with my XT as could find no mention of this type of issue
I guess people are happy just to hit the X whereas I think if you have spent a good load of £££ the tool should work as expected

Ever noticed that the route you're riding is bright magenta and up ahead past a point the route is shown as dull magenta?

Have sort of noticed this but not paid too much attention, when riding I find it hard to process this sort of detail, concentration is required elsewhere

I see this too, but only when I'm way out in the boondocks

It is definitely NOT a signal issue, I get this in all sorts of locations & with great 4G
I think your correct the XT is not getting the info it needs to complete its calculation/process, but the info it is not getting is I believe because it cannot resolve/compute, is struggling to recalculate some of the earlier segments.

I believe that each 'segment' is bounded by the Via Points (Orange flags).
I'm wondering how far ahead it is having to look. The route has 185 miles to go. How many points ahead are Via Points ?

I agree that a segment (& segment is a guess on my part with regards terminology) is bounded by the flags which are denoting Via points.
The Via points are as near as on the road as you can get.

The screen it seems to want to display seems to be a summary of the remainder of the trip showing
the time to destnation, the remaing miles, the numebr of segments or "Stops" or remaining number of Via points, plus some road/route info.

The reason I think the error is something to do with not being able to recalculate earlier segments is that I don't tend to see the error on the first or early segments, it appears to occur more on later segments, possibly after a route recalculation.

I would say the routes are fairly typical, 200-250 miles with regular stops denoted by Via points every 50-60 miles for morning & afternoon coffee + lunch. Approximately half way through each 50-60 mile section (so 20-30 miles) of the trip I add an additional Via point.
There will be numerous shaping points between Via points, the number depending on how twisty / convoluted the route.
Auto-recalculation is set to Prompted
The issue has been seen with both routes from Basecamp & MRA
Basecamp routes are "Send to Device" from PC to the XT internal drive where they are "New routes found. Import to Trip Planner" when the XT is switched on.
MRA routes are shared from the MRA mobile App to the Garmin Drive App & sent to the XT

Hmm

Just a couple of observations. Signal for the XT navigation does not require 4G. It gets its information for fixing its positions from GPS Satellites. It just needs a clear view of the sky. 4G may be required for traffic and road closures - but if it cannot get a signal for this, it cannot report anything - so it isn't that either.

Is the display that you are referring to the one that you show on the right hand screen of your picture above ?

If so, this only occurs when the route is started - when you pass through the start point. It doesn't happen after passing every Via Point - except under simulation, when it does show up after every Via Point.

I think - but I'd have to go out and check - that it may happen if you skip a route point and it has recalculated the entire route.
If that is correct, and you are seeing that display a lot, it may be due to the route recalculating - which is what you mentioned.

In that case I would be wondering why the route is constantly recalculating. Have you missed the start point / via points for example. Before you say No think carefully. It is so easy to miss the start point when you set off - it is 5m behind you and you are facing away from it - so you follow the magenta line, but in fact the satnav is taking you back to the start. It could be something like that.

Other questions for you to answer. (I don't need to know).
Do you have U turns turned off ?
Do you allow the route to recalculate ?
Is the XT issuing voice prompts ?

The first two situations could result in the XT trying to take you back - you think you are following the magenta line, but you are following it in the wrong direction - because it wants you to go back to the start.

Tap the skip button on the map screen - see which point it is heading for next. Is it the one that you think it is ??

Why is your route blue ? That is normally the colour of the tracks that have beenr ecorded for previous rides.

I have seen the spinning circle for years on my xt

Signal for the XT navigation does not require 4G. It gets its information for fixing its positions from GPS Satellites.

I agree it has got nothing to do with internet connectivity & it is not due to poor GPS signal

Is the display that you are referring to the one that you show on the right hand screen of your picture above ?
If so, this only occurs when the route is started - when you pass through the start point. It doesn't happen after passing every Via Point - except under simulation, when it does show up after every Via Point.

Yes the summary display on the right, the first few Via points pop up this information route summary & appears okay.
It is when passing later Via points that it appears to go wrong & yes I agree it is possibly something to do with the route being recalculated.
The XT seems to be overly/extremely sensitive to being off route, just pull into the side ot the road & it seems to want to initiate a recalculation.

In that case I would be wondering why the route is constantly recalculating. Have you missed the start point / via points for example.

I don't believe I have missed the start as the XT is routing me correctly, it is updating the street name & Via point details on the top of the XT screen, it even announces the Via point I am approaching that is going to pop up the blue spinning disc.

Do you have U turns turned off ?

U-turns does not effect the issue, have the seen the problem with both U-Turns disabled & enabled.

Do you allow the route to recalculate ?

Yes, auto-recalculate is set to prompted & I generally acknowledge & allow the recalculation request.
I understand many XT (Garmin) users swear by the fact that auto-recalculate needs to be off & there are a host of issues with the XT recalculation like the Saved/Import Trip fiasco
But IMO the whole purpose of a navigation device is to assist in navigation, without recalculation the XT is just a dumb scrolling map, why have a dog if you have to bark yourself!

Is the XT issuing voice prompts ?

Yes I have voice prompts enabled, I prefer to keep my eyes on the road as much as possible & only glance at the sat nav when required/prompted.
The fact the XT can announce the name of a Via points is one of the reasons I bought it & am extremely disappointed with the 29 Via point limit.
I wanted to be able to add a lot more pertinant info to Via point names

Tap the skip button on the map screen - see which point it is heading for next. Is it the one that you think it is ??

I know it is the correct, the expected Via point, as the XT has seconds before previously announced the Via point name.

Why is your route blue ? That is normally the colour of the tracks that have beenr recorded for previous rides.

Trying out a custom theme.
I can't believe that even set on widest it is not possible to easily see a track hidden behind the magenta route line.
Garmin users have been using & extolling this trick for years & yet Garmin don't have a setting on the XT wide enough to make the track clearly visible

I've just got about 30 minutes in front of the computer - after that I'm restricted to my ipad for a couple of weeks - and that doesn't have all of the info that I need - so puzzling over what is going on with the rest of this won't be possible for a while.

However these two things I can offer a quick comment.

jfheath wrote:Tap the skip button on the map screen - see which point it is heading for next. Is it the one that you think it is ??

BMcG wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 8:42 pmI know it is the correct, the expected Via point, as the XT has seconds before previously announced the Via point name.

Humour me on this one. When it happens, tap the Skip button and read what it thinks is the next point. Then tap cancel. We have seen rogue route points in the list here - and I captured one on video last week. I didn't put it there, the system did - and I think I know why but haven't had chance to investigate it fully. The only time I have been able to see this is when I look at what it thinks that it is heading for next in the skip list.

I have also travelled a full route having thought that it hadn't recognised the start point. I tapped skip, and indeed, the start point was still the next item, so I skipped it. The route navigated oddly, but issued all of the correct announcements. But I stopped at the roadside just before the route finished, and checked 'skip'. The next point was the second point, so I skipped it. In fact every single point that I had passed through and it had announced was still in the list of points that I could skip - (you can only see the next point, but as soon as you skip, it and then tap skip again, you can get the sequence. It was odd behaviour, and I believe that it had something to do with whatever happened at the start.
(nb you can also select edit route by tapping the top banner - this gives you the next shaping point and the next via point - but it doesn't tell you in which order they appear in the route).

jfheath wrote:Why is your route blue ? That is normally the colour of the tracks that have beenr recorded for previous rides.

BMcG wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 8:42 pmTrying out a custom theme.
I can't believe that even set on widest it is not possible to easily see a track hidden behind the magenta route line.
Garmin users have been using & extolling this trick for years & yet Garmin don't have a setting on the XT wide enough to make the track clearly visible

I have a couple of themes that I modified. I only changed two sections in Garmin.kmtf - I copied the kmtf file and called the new file JFH Garmin.kmtf - then edited JFH Garmin.kmtf. These are all located in Internal Storage/Themes/Map on the Zumo XT

One section was the name of the theme. I simply put my intitials in front of the original. This section is at the top of the file.

<TITLE>JFH Garmin</TITLE>
<DESCRIPTION>JFH Garmin Theme</DESCRIPTION>
<CREATOR>JFH - Garmin</CREATOR>
<Version><Major>1</Major><Minor>00</Minor></Version>

The other was the MAP_TRK_CLR section - at the bottom of the file. I changed the scale from 1.00 to 3.00

<STYLE field = "MAP_TRK_CLR" scale = "3.00" >

This works best for me if the Track width is set to medium. It looks odd when redrawing, but it makes the track slightly wider than the route, so if it is set as a high contrast colour (I use black), the track can just be seen peeping out from under the route.

It isn't perfect, but it is enough. Two screen shots - the track is odd here, cos I used a the route sent to me by @Zumek when I was asking for some information about Kurviger. So the XT has drawn the route, but the track was drawn using Kurviger maps. The track doesn't appear as a thin black line either side of the route - highlighting the difference in the maps. I always use Basecamp - identical maps - and I get a thin black line either side of the route.

Ok, been having a little play to see if I could understand the problem a bit better & I think I have managed to narrow it down quite a bit.
For a full days 200+ mile route I would normally use upwards of 40 points, sometimes maybe 60 depending on how complex, nadgery the route was & how tightly I wanted to constrain the sat nav from taking me back to the main road.

I believe I can get the issue to occur in simulation mode & can also get the same issue/result when physically riding the route with only 5 routing points
Hopefully this should be a lot simpler to figure out where/why the problem is occuring.

2 points are obviously the Start & End Via points.
For the issue to occur the route must consist of more than 2 segments, where a segment is defined as the route between 2 Via points.
Adding a third Via point only creates a route with 2 segments so a fourth Via point is required to create a route with 3 segments.
A simple route like this with all Via points won't fail / it wont show the issue.

To get the issue to occur at a fifth point, a shaping point has to be added in the first segment.

The route then has to be started from a point beyond the first segment using "Closest entry point"
To make this easy to test I added a waypoint/favourite # in the second segment.
This waypoint is not part of the route, it was just so I could set the XT location in simulation mode & consistently define the closest entry point.

I believe that starting the route at the closest entry point in this way, beyond the first segment, is similar to what happens in reality when a recalculation of the route ocurrs when actually riding a more complex route.
I think the issue may only occur only after a deviation from the route or skipping a point, so after a recalculation.
My guess is that after a deviation/skip, when the XT is attempting to calculate the remaining route summary screen it somehow tries to recalculate the beginning of the route so it can work out the remainder of the route but the addition of the shaping point somehow corrupts the calculation.

& if you think that is weird
everything will work perfectly if the final fifth end Via point is within less than 1 mile of the previous fourth Via point!
If the fifth Via point is 1.1 miles after Via point 4 the popup summary info screen will display the blue spinning disc.

Another way of looking at this is, if I want to avoid the issue & use auto-recalculation, then I can't use shaping points (like that is going to work!!)