Zumo User Forums

I haven't noticed this before, but this oddity appears in my XT and in my 595. I don't know about the 590.

Tracks can be deleted from the system without you realising.

During transfer data from (say) Basecamp is put into Internal Storage / GPX as a file. If it is done just using Basecamp, this gets written to temp.gpx
Temp.gpx gets over-written if the USB cable is disconnected and then subsequently further transfers are made. Only the last transfers survive.

But it also happen if you use Basecamp to create a GPX file with your routes, tracks and favourites (saved). This doesn't involve temp.gpx. You copy the GPX file that you have created and place it into the Internal Storage / GPX folder. I always thought that would be safe as it doesn't involve temp.gpx which we know that Basecamp overwrites each time the cable is reconnected and more transfers are made.

No - these separate GPX files are not safe - including shared files and files transferred by Garmin Drive - which end up as GPX file saved in exactly the same place. What seems to happen is that when you use the Zumo to import the favourites, the Zumo removes the lines in the file that relate to the imported track. They are gone. Thats OK - the tracks are still there on the XT to use. But the original data in the original GPX file has been extracted and removed. The file is now shorter and all of the track data that was in it has now gone.

The good news is that if you use basecamp to send the routes tracks and waypoints to the Zumo - either by creating a GPX file and placing it in the
SD Card/Garmin/GPX folder, or by dragging and dropping it - then the Zumo doesn't seem to be able to touch that and routes, tracks and favourites can be deleted safely and then reimported at any time.

There is one small issue with Favourites. If you delete all of them, then Zumo is unable to find any favourites to import. This is another feature that Garmin have not yet addressed. The answer is easy. Just tap on the map anywhere to create a favourite and save it. Then try to import favourites again. It will be able to find them.

There is another vaguely related issue. If you load a route, and then mess around with it in some way - eg by changing the preferences or the vehicle, this causes the route to recalculate, and it may be different from the route that you loaded. Once, this was easily solved by reimporting the original route. But not now, apparently. The route being imported seems to have changed to the altered one.

But I have been testing this and not only do the tracks stay intact, so do the original routes. So far, everything that i have put onto an SD card has allowed me to wirp out everything form the route app, the track app and the favourites/saved app - and then reimport it.

I have long resisted the use of the SD card for storing routes. It is marginally slower and it bypasses the processing that Garmin does to get things in the correct place. Instead you have to manually import favourites, manually import tracks. SD cards used to be physically large and of relatively low capacity. The 1.2Gb of internal storage was massive when the 550 came out, and cards were of relatively low capacity if you wanted to buy one that you could afford. And they failed far too often for my liking (once is far too often when it is something important that is on there).
So any disadvantages that I care to list are trivial compared to the significant advantages to the user and are probably down to me being stuck in my ways and trying justify it without considering that SD cards are much faster, and much more reliable.

But it seems that using the SD card gets rid of the opportunity for the Zumo to spring some of these nasty surprises on you.

And another issue. Russ's ears will prick up at this. For ages I have had in the back of my mind a comment that @rbentnail has frequently made that in order to delete routes, tracks, waypoint you just use the list in Basecamp. Except I couldn't. So there had to be a difference in the way that we were setting things up. I didn't know if it was an Media Transfer Protocol vs MAss Storage setting, or a slightly different generation of Zumo.
The difference seems to be that I always put my routes into Internal Storage. But testing these things today, that is a habit that will be changing. And yes, I can delete tracks and routes using Basecamp if everything is on the SD card.

What I now have to remember, is that people coming from the earlier Zumos will may have developed habits like mine - trusting the internal storage to do its job. Clearly this is no longer the case. Using an SD cars would solve a whole list of problems

Lost data transferred from Basecamp to Internal storage due to temp.gpx being overwritten each time
Lost tracks.
Easier deleting of data using Basecamp
Reimporting routes for SD gets the original, not the edited one.
A foolproof low tech method of sharing routes.

"But it also happen if you use Basecamp to create a GPX file with your routes, tracks and favourites (saved)."

I have never had good luck with creating a single GPX file that contains more than one route or a combo of routes, tracks and favorites. It seems to create more chances for things to go wrong.

So much so that my workflow is to export from BC one route at a time, then move those individual GPX files to the SD card. Along with the advantages of using the card that you mention, this can also allow you to edit route names (inside the GPX file, not the GPX filename) in order to allow better organization in the Import list on the XT.

-dan

I always put routes into the SD card as that way if after importing and messing around with it, I don't like the result, I can delete it and re-import the original route.

Not yet found how to send favorites to the SD card instead of the XT / 59x though.

danham wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 3:49 pm I have never had good luck with creating a single GPX file that contains more than one route or a combo of routes, tracks and favorites. It seems to create more chances for things to go wrong.

I don't include waypoints so that is one less complication for me. When I export routes or tracks from Basecamp I but each in its own file solely because that seems to be logical from a file manipulation standpoint. When I use "send to" in Basecamp, I have often selected several routes and tracks and then did a "Send to" to transfer them all. This is always followed by an immediate import of all of them. Copies are selectively placed on the SD card, sometimes from within Basecamp (drag-n-drop or send to), sometimes manually as the .gpx file created by Basecamp's "Export selection".

Regarding Favourites, I despise how Garmin handles them. IMO, every via point in a route is NOT a Favourite yet Garmin treats them as such.

Thanks for the reply Dan

danham wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 3:49 pm
I have never had good luck with creating a single GPX file that contains more than one route or a combo of routes, tracks and favorites. It seems to create more chances for things to go wrong.

So much so that my workflow is to export from BC one route at a time, then move those individual GPX files to the SD card. Along with the advantages of using the card that you mention, this can also allow you to edit route names (inside the GPX file, not the GPX filename) in order to allow better organization in the Import list on the XT.

I multi-select the items in the bottom left pane, then choose "device" and send selection to device.
Then choose SD card.

You can also drag and drop the selected item to the SD card listed in the window with the tree diagram above on the left.

You have to watch the green progress bar go across and a green tick appear both next to the SD card label.

The name that you give to the route in Basecamp is the name that is shown in the XT.

Get back to me if this doesn't make sense, I'll do you a vide of me doing it.

Oop North John wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 4:25 pm I always put routes into the SD card as that way if after importing and messing around with it, I don't like the result, I can delete it and re-import the original route.

Not yet found how to send favorites to the SD card instead of the XT / 59x though.

Yes, your top paragrah used to be the case with the 590 (I think). it was only with the 595 and XT that I noticed issues.

See my comment to dan above - or wait for a video about your last sentence !

I should have mentioned that I try to avoid connecting my XT to my iMac for two reasons. The USB port on the XT is vulnerable to forces created by insertion and resting the unit on its back while working, and because it's a Mac I have to fuss a bit with Android File transfer. It's easier (for me) to pop the SD card out of the XT and into my iMac.

So I export routes individually from BC to my computer, then drag them to the proper folder on the SD card.

-dan

Peobody wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 5:05 pm

I don't include waypoints so that is one less complication for me. When I export routes or tracks from Basecamp I but each in its own file solely because that seems to be logical from a file manipulation standpoint. When I use "send to" in Basecamp, I have often selected several routes and tracks and then did a "Send to" to transfer them all. This is always followed by an immediate import of all of them. Copies are selectively placed on the SD card, sometimes from within Basecamp (drag-n-drop or send to), sometimes manually as the .gpx file created by Basecamp's "Export selection"

No problem with that. No matter how you send them, there is no problem with importing them. The zumo finds all the gpx files in the Garmin/Gpx folder on the sd card. And if you delete all of the routes tracks and favourites on the xt screen it will import them all again.

Except - if you delete ALL of the favourites when you try to import them, it will report that there aren't any. It is lying. I imagine it is a programming error. someone has counted the number of favourites already stored, rather than the number available to import. Found it to be zero so reported there aren't any. I can spot school kid programming errors.

So you have to put a favourite back. Easiest way is to tap the map to make a flag appear. Then save it. Then try to import them again.

Tracks can only be reimported if they are on the sd card.

Peobody wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 5:05 pm Regarding Favourites, I despise how Garmin handles them. IMO, every via point in a route is NOT a Favourite yet Garmin treats them as such.

I disagree. Not with your sentiment - you can despise how Garmin handles things, I won't bat an eyelid. But I think your analysis is confused.

Waypoints are the things that you create in Basecamp with the red flag icon tool. You create them before you use them in a route. You can also create them by searching the massive database for stored locations. Choose one of what it finds and a small pop up dislogue box asks if you want to place a waypoint on the map.

Waypoints are the only route points that appear in the lower left pane in Basecamp along with the routes and tracks.


To get them into a route you can do one of two things.
1. multiselect the waypoints from the lower left pane. Basecamp remembers the order in which you select them. Then right click and select 'Create a route from the selected waypoints' or something like that. It builds a route using those points in the order in which you selected them. You can then use the insert tool to rubber-band the route to visit additional points. But this additional points will not be waypoints.

2. You can add more waypoints into a route by first creating them, and then double click the route to get the route properties dialogue box. here you can change any point from via to shaping or vice versa, rearrange the order, set the start date and time, set layover times. At the right hand side are three icons - a plus sign and two 'arrows, up and down'. You press the plus sign to add one of your saved waypoints. You can use the arrows to shift its position in the route. You can also use the mouse to drag points to reorder them.

The display changes to show the route plotted with straight lines. There is a small bug in the reordering. It sometimes joins the point being moved to the end point, so the point just moved is attached to 3 route segments, not 2. Just recalculate it.

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Every route point in the route has to be set as start, finish via (alerting) or shaping (not alering). Via points are shown in black text. Shaping points are shown in grey text and say (wont alert) after the name. The start and finish are always Via Points.

The heading at the top of the route table is maybe the cause of your confusion. It is labelled 'Via Points'. This is not a schoolboy programming error. This is more like a project manager error . That heading comes from Mapsource - I assume - from which it seems likely that Basecamp developed. Mapsource was the program of choice for the 550 and the 660 - in the days when every point seemed to be a via. It wasn't until the zumos with trip planner came along that the distinction between alerting (via) points and ( non-alerting ) shaping points was made. Yet that heading remained. So the heading is not correct.

You cannot tell in that table which points were originally created as waypoints. Except there are a sequence if symbols and by default, flags are Waypoints, dots or circles are not. The size of the dot or circle indicates the significance of the location. so a point on a road might be a block dot, a large town might be a big green circle. But these flags and circles have nothing to do with the flags and circles on the Zumo map to indicate Vias and Shaping points.

Any waypoint can be set as a shaping point, although they default to Vias when first placed. Small dots eg road names tend to default to shaping. I just highlight the lot except the start and finish and right click and set them all to shaping. Then I pick the ones that I want to be Vias.

The 585 and XT will probably change the name that you gave to many route points. But ut never changes the name of points that were created as Waypoints. Because of this I have started to use more waypoint than I used to.

Only the points that were created as Waypoints get transferred to the Zumo as Favourites. If sending to internal storage this happens on transfer. if sending to the SD card, they will have to be imported manually - bearing in mind the fact that there must be one favourite already saved, and if there isn't you have to make one.

jfheath wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 8:15 pm Only the points that were created as Waypoints get transferred to the Zumo as Favourites.

Right, but to make every waypoint fuel station, restaurant, coffee shop, hotel, tourist attraction, picnic area, and scenic overview in every imported route a Favourites is absurd to me. I will likely never again visit any of these places so having them accumulate in the Favourites is a PITA rather than of value. I think that having a selective 'add to Favourites" option when viewing the list of route points would have been a better way to go. Of course, tapping one of those now results in the point type automatically being changed resulting in a recalc so, in my mind, a tap on one should produce a prompt offering options (eg: Change from shaping to via, Change from via to shaping, Add to Favorites, Cancel).

Ah . I see what you mean.

I delete them from Zumo when I am done. The most I ever have in it are whatever I require for one tour. Itz all in BC if I need it.

I used to use just one - the final destination - as a simple way of keeping the phone number available. I use Vias for the key points on the route so that my pillion can see the time to Via or Distance to Via on the trip display. I tend to put them just after lunch and coffee stops, so that they can be used as the start point of the next part of the route, should I manage to accidentally stop the route while zumo is in my pocket. Starting it again shows only Vias as next destination.

But because the XT renames most point except Waypoints, and I tend to name them with a mileage infront - eg 123 Morning Coffee Hawes - I have to make these as waypoints. Its a pain. Not needed in places I know, but unknown places, yes.

Bring back my 590. I tried to put the 590 software on my 595 the other day. It worked ok, but then when I tried to use the Usb connection, it got stuck in a boot loop. So its back as a 595. I wonder if Garmin will refurbish / replace my 590 with the destryed motherboard for a token fee ?