Tracks vs Routes/Trips

[Peobody]

Have you tried taking Explore and Tread out of the picture? I think there should be a way to create a route in BaseCamp, export it as a .gpx, and then copy that file to the XT2 using a files explorer.

With the XT, you can transfer files directly to it from BaseCamp (BaseCamp sees it when it is connected to the PC). Garmin states that the XT2 is incompatible with BaseCamp so this interaction may not be possible requiring the copying of the .gpx file to the XT2 as a workaround.

[gwilki]

Have you tried taking Explore and Tread out of the picture? I think there should be a way to create a route in BaseCamp, export it as a .gpx, and then copy that file to the XT2 using a files explorer.

With the XT, you can transfer files directly to it from BaseCamp (BaseCamp sees it when it is connected to the PC). Garmin states that the XT2 is incompatible with BaseCamp so this interaction may not be possible requiring the copying of the .gpx file to the XT2 as a workaround.

I started by using Basecamp. I am used to it as I use it to create kayaking tracks that I put on a Montana.

Garmin is dishonest - to be kind - about the XT2 and BC. When I plug the XT2 in, BC sees it and adds it as a folder in my collection. So, I can create in BC and drag the route to the internal storage in the XT2. The issue seems to be that the XT2 sees it as a track even though in BC, it is a route. So, the XT2 converts it to a route so that I can get turn by turn directions. In doing that, things go a bit haywire. When I took this up with Garmin, they said, "yup, that's by design. We don't want you using BC with the XT2."

Now all that said, there are dozens of videos on Youtube of guys who have had good luck with this. So, as I said, I accept that some of this is on me.

Thanks for your input.

[Peobody]

When I took this up with Garmin, they said, "yup, that's by design. We don't want you using BC with the XT2."

They told me the same thing in reference to my XT. They insisted I use Explore.

So, I can create in BC and drag the route to the internal storage in the XT2.

I would try exporting the route to a file by selecting it then using File > Export > Export Selection, then copying that file to the \GPX directory on the XT2, and then importing it using Trip Planner or Route Planner (whatever it's called) on the XT2.

[gwilki]

I will try that, tks much.

[jfheath]

Very intereresting observations Grant. Thank you for describing and explaining.

I know absolutely nothing about the XT2. But I did experiment with the XT and Explore. And I had a quick look at the Tread App.
Your little essays have added extra to the picture.

To my mind a Route is something that the computer or Zumo calculates based entirely on a collection of route points. Vias and Shaping.
A track is juts a line of dots joined together to display on a map.

Explore's routes were made up of straight lines joining together points where the direction changed. These could be transferred to the XT, and the XT would calculate a route based on the verices / corners. These could be navigated. That idea falls in line with the XTs route - points linked to gether with straight lines - which the Zumo or computer will replace with magenta lines on real roads.

Waypoints (Saved locations) could be transferred to the Zumo and they are placed in favourites. They can appear on the map, but they do not form any part of any magenta line - unlike in Basecamp routes. But to be fair - Basecamp waypoints don't actually form a part of any route either. They are defined at the start of the route file and the same coordinates are copied as a separate entries in the route. So it lookes as though they are a feature of the magenta line.

The 'Trip Planner' in the XT has been renamed to a more correct (in my opinion) 'Route Planner' Which I guess leaves the term 'Trip' to be the sort of navigable magenta line that has no route points. Like the type you get when converting a track to a trip, and which seems to be what you get when you send a route from Explore to the Zumo.

The Zumo XT does not sync with your computer running the Explore website or app. The App synchs with the Explore web servers. The XT synchs with Explore's web servers - via the Drive App and your phone's 3G/4G/5G data connection - or the phones wifi connection. I believe that Tread will do the same - so you shouldn't need to synch or transfer from Explore to Tread. From what I have read, they seem to use the same database on the same web servers. So change something using Explore, the Tread app may well pick up the changes. The Tread app has changed since I last looked at it, but it is certainly enabling access to my Explore routes tracks and waypoints.

The Explore Apps have a magnet icon which allows the road/track to snap to the nearest road, track or footpath. The website version does not have this. I cannot access a PC based version of the Tread App, but I can get a limited version of it on my iPad and it finds my explore routes and tracks.

Since the 595 (not sure about the 590), there has been a facility to convert a track to a 'Trip'. This is easily done - it simply takes the tags in the gpx file and changes them from <trkpt> to whatever the trip equivalent of <rtept> is. This can be loaded from trip planner and navigated - with the dire warning that if it is edited it will change it to a normal route and it will find the faster way between the start and the end.

There are features in all of this and in what you described that have been developing for a long while, and which seem to have caused a lot of issues for unwary users since the 590. Some of which have crept into the XT (and it turns out, the 595) and it has made normal road navigation following particular routes difficult. The renaming and relocation or route points being two such example; the odd way that the XT heads for faster roads even though the result is significantly longer; the repeatedly tracking back to the last U-turn request resulting in 30 mile routes to reach a point a mile in front of you; ...........


I'd like to know - if you can tell us - whether the XT2's Route planner allows you to add route points, buitl up from favourites, and then allows you to shape the route - or change the flag via points to shaping points.

If it can do that, then it can still cope with the GPX files from Basecamp - even if you have to email them to your drive app to get them transferred.

[gwilki]

I'd like to know - if you can tell us - whether the XT2's Route planner allows you to add route points, buitl up from favourites, and then allows you to shape the route - or change the flag via points to shaping points.

If it can do that, then it can still cope with the GPX files from Basecamp - even if you have to email them to your drive app to get them transferred.

I'll play and get back to you.

Garmin tech has written me again. (I have to hand it to the guy. He does not give up.)

I had sent him a screen cap of a route that I made in Explore on my PC. I had sent him a pic of that same route after it was brought into the Tread app. (Just an FYI, there is no Tread app for the PC. That would make creating routes far too easy.) The two pics were very, very different. In short, the route that I created in Explore left a gas station, entered a highway going east, followed that highway to the first exit, headed north from that exit, west at the first local street and two more lefts to my house. Here is a screencap of that route in Explore

screen cap from explore.jpg (485.33 KiB) Viewed 1307 times

Now here is that same route in Tread. You can see that the route no longer exits at the first exit - Eagleson. It continues on to the Moodie exit, then heads west through a very convolute way back to my house.

wrong route.jpg (182.73 KiB) Viewed 1307 times

So I sent Garmin these graphics. I also sent the .gpx file from Explore and the .gpx file from Tread. Garmin tech's reply was that the .gpx files were exactly the same. I can only conclude, then, that Explore interprets the .gpx file one way and Tread interprets it completely differently. He did send a new .gpx file showing me what I did in Explore that made Tread do what it did. In short, he has me leaving the highway before the ramp; in effect, into a field.Then, doing the same thing leaving the ramp onto the northbound road. He really does not want me to use Explore at all, though.

I really believe now that the way forward, assuming for the moment that I'm going to go forward and not simply return the Zumo, is to go back to BC and play until I get it to work. Some day, Tread may be ready for prime time, but it sure as hell is not now.

[Gelo]

It is incomprehensible that a device that works so poorly is on sale.

As long as the Tread is used, my XT2 has not worked well.
Deactivating or eliminating the Tread, in this way making the routes in Basecamp and taking the gpx by USB cable to the XT2 will work well but it loses the essence for what the XT2 was created for, wireless transmission.

Anything that I put through the Tread app has been garbage.
Regards

[gwilki]

In fairnesss, the tech that I am dealing with appears to be very competent. It's simply that the software products that he is trying to support are garbage.

To add to the things that I have learned, I now know that we should not follow Garmin's advice to upload routes to their Explore server. They promote this as being a good way to store our routes in the cloud so that we can access them from anywhere we are located that has internet access. Do not do this. The Explore server makes changes to the file that will cause you downstream grief if you ever need to access it.

[Fxwheels]

So if you're saving a file on your PC as .gpx which you made in BC, then connecting the XT to the PC via USB and moving the gpx file into XT2 /gpx/ directory - does the XT2 still use Tread, or makes a direct move to XT2? If the latest, then you in business. Just remember to put enough shaping points when creating a route in BC so the XT2 won't reroute somewhere in between them (all navs are doing it).
This simple PC to nav move is true for not only BC made gpx files, but also all gpx files that were made in all different 3rd party software. I often share .gpx files made in Furkot, Tyre, Harley-Davidson, etc., etc.

If it's the first, and tread is still interferes, returning the XT2 and getting the XT may be a better solution and saving $200 in the process.

[gwilki]

It's the first. I can copy the gpx from my pc to the zumo through usb with tread getting in the way. I'm just watching a very good series my ezmototim on youtube. Right now, he is going through the basics of creating, modifying, splitting and joining routes. He says the same thing about adding points so that the gps knows where I want to go. My plan is to create a route from what I have learned and test it on the xt2 tomorrow. Wish me luck, please. I believe that I am going to need it after all my failures.