BaseCamp and Announced Route Points

[chrou54]

Hello,
To minimize recalculations on routes in my new XT2, I am multiplying the announced waypoints which according to what I have read will not be deleted, nor modified during the transfer in the gps. I've also read that some, for a better ranking of these points in BC, associate numbers with names. It's true that this makes it easier to insert waypoints into routes when working on BC. I'm preparing the itineraries for our next trip to Norway and associating the numbers of the points announced with the names of the places of passage (difficult to remember) would be practical.
Will the announcement in the earpiece of my headset say the full title? Is there a particular syntax to be respected in the naming given to these waypoints? Will everything be read as written: digits (zeros too?), words (compound words?), even if spaces between words?
For example: step 2 of day 3 "point of view" will be referred to as "02 03 point of view". Will it be read as it is [zero two] silent [zero three] silent [point of view], or should we add dashes - or underscore _ instead of spaces?
Is there a limit on the number of characters that can be announced?
Thank you for your help
Christian

I'm a French speaker, this is a machine translation. Please forgive me if any language is inappropriate

[Peobody]

For multi-day trips with one route per day I use the naming convention of D#_##_WaypointName. So, I would name waypoint number two in day two "D2_02_WaypointName". On my XT, this will be announced as "Dee two zero two waypointname". Leading zeroes will not be announced, so for your example of "02 03 point of view" you would hear "two zero three point of view".

Your thinking around using lots of waypoints to create your route is solid. Keep in mind that once you have created the route, you can go back and set most of those waypoints to not alert. The goal is to reduce the number of announced points while leaving some sprinkled throughout the route so that you can navigate to one if you need to. The reason is that a non-alerting waypoint becomes a shaping point. You can not select a shaping point as a destination or as a starting point.

Also, my naming convention can include things like:
D1_L_Christians Diner = Lunch at Christians Diner on day 1
D2_F1_Exxon in Denver = Fuel stop #1 in Denver on day 2
D3_Holiday Inn in Santa Fe = Day 3 motel

I hope this translates into French well enough to make sense.

[jfheath]

Welcome Christian

To minimize recalculations on routes in my new XT2, I am multiplying the announced waypoints which according to what I have read will not be deleted, nor modified during the transfer in the gps. I've also read that some, for a better ranking of these points in BC, associate numbers with names.

Your 'announced waypoints' are called Via Points. These are the ones that show up as orange flags on the Zumo screen.
Shaping points show up as orange discs on the Zumo 590 trip planner screen or as light blue circles on the map.

"Waypoints" = Favourites = Enregistre. You don't have to use Waypoints. Some people use the term 'waypoint' to mean a route point.
Garmin does not. They use Via Point, Shaping Point.
Via points announce on arrival
Shaping point do not announce on arrival

I don't know what you have been reading but the information that you have obtained is not correct.

A Garmin waypoint can be used in a route as either a Via point (announcing) or as a Shaping Point (silent).
It seems that you have been given the impression that a Waypoint is the same as a Via Point. It is not.

The names of route points are not changed if they are transferred to the Zumo 590. They remain exactly as you created them in Basecamp.
'Better Ranking' - I assume that you mean the order in which the data is displayed.

In the Zumo 590, if you set the date and time of the first point in each day's route, then the routes will be displayed in order of date.
Otherwise, they tend to be ordered by how close you are to the first point of the route. This is so that when you set off each day, the list shows the routes with the start point that is closes to where you are.

Waypoints (Enregistre) - these are locations that you have saved before making the route. Those are also ordered by their position - closest first.

Putting a number with a name may help you to locate a point. Sometimes they may be sorted alphabetically - so if you want them to be in that order, then you must use the same number of digits for each number. So 02 rather than 2. I use numbers, but I don't use it for sorting purposes. I use it for other reasons.

Someone has read some correct information and then repeated it incorrectly. Some Zumos will change the name of your route points. One way of preventing this is to create them first as Waypoints on Basecamp - by using the Flag tool. The Zumo will never change the name of a route point that has first been created as a Waypoint. However - this doesn't apply to the Zumo 590. The XT and the 595 yes, but not the 590.

The Zumo 590 will not delete waypoints. However most Zumos are able to lose favourites - once deleted, they cannot be imported again.
However this is also incorrect. If there is no favourite already in internal storage, then it cannot find any favourites to import. But if you visit the map and add a favourite to the map by tapping somehwere, you can save that to internal storage. Then - magic - all of the missing favourites are suddenly available to import again.

Also - if transferring from Basecamp and you have the Zumo set to MTP Auto Detect (default), then it is likely that when transferring from BC, your routes, tracks and Waypoints are all placed in a file called temp.gpx If you disconnect the USB cable and then reconnect and transfer some more data, then temp.gpx is over-written. It is better to transfer all of your data at once - even if you have transferred it before.
It is OK to transfer some, and then some more, and then some more - providing that the USB connection between BC and the Zumo is not lost.

Or put your data on the SD card. That doesn't use temp.gpx.

It's true that this makes it easier to insert waypoints into routes when working on BC. I'm preparing the itineraries for our next trip to Norway and associating the numbers of the points announced with the names of the places of passage (difficult to remember) would be practical.

If you are wanting to keep track of where you are in the route, then using a number for each Via Point is useful. I do this when I visit Europe and the number represents the number of km from the start. I set the trip on the motorcycle to zero each day before I set off. Then my odometer can be compared with my trip list - easy to tell what is coming up next.

Will the announcement in the earpiece of my headset say the full title? Is there a particular syntax to be respected in the naming given to these waypoints? Will everything be read as written: digits (zeros too?), words (compound words?), even if spaces between words?
For example: step 2 of day 3 "point of view" will be referred to as "02 03 point of view". Will it be read as it is [zero two] silent [zero three] silent [point of view], or should we add dashes - or underscore _ instead of spaces?
Is there a limit on the number of characters that can be announced?

I have the 590, but haven't ridden with it for a while. I seem to remember that it reads out everything so it will read out zero two zero three point of view. Spaces are OK. There are no rules - but be aware that the screen may not display all of the characters. Some screens show more than others and one of my Zumos (it may have been the 590) used to reduce the size of the lettering to fit more on. You will need to experiment with this. Create a place name 01 234 Abcdefghijklmonopqrstuvwxyz, put it ina route and see how it displays. It makes it easy to count the characters.!



I have a document for the 590. If it would help, I can pull out the text from each page so that you can translate it. If you do that, you might consider sending back a modified french translation. I can post the modified (french) document then !
Send me a pm

[chrou54]

For multi-day trips with one route per day I use the naming convention of D#_##_WaypointName. So, I would name waypoint number two in day two "D2_02_WaypointName". On my XT, this will be announced as "Dee two zero two waypointname". Leading zeroes will not be announced, so for your example of "02 03 point of view" you would hear "two zero three point of view".

I hope this translates into French well enough to make sense.

Thank you Peobody for your reply.
That answers all my questions. As far as the French translation is concerned, I can read and understand the English texts without too much difficulty. It's to write a proper comment that Google Translate is my friend
Kind regards

[chrou54]

Hi jfheath,
Thank you for your reply.
Regarding the naming of the waypoints, it's complicated between the English and French versions and Garmin hasn't done anything to simplify things. In Belgium or France, we do not talk about "Via Points" or "Shaping point". On French-speaking forums it's a mix of POI (Point of Interest), Waypoint (waypoints), etc..., it's confusing. Only those who consult the English-speaking forums talk about Via and Shaping point. To make my life easier, I talk (for me) about announced and unannounced points. I consider that the announced points will not be changed when importing the route into the XT2. For unannounced items, it's less clear. In certain circumstances (recalculation of route, change of profile, or fad of the XT2) they can be renamed or simply removed from the route followed by the GPS.
It doesn't matter how to get from point A to point B, but if you want to go through the beautiful little road parallel to the main road, it won't work. In these circumstances, I regret my Zumo 660, which is much more user-friendly in this regard. He followed the route he was told, one point, that's all.
I think that, the XT2, as it works in .gpx and no more with .gdb routes, recalculates constantly and even more so if you pass your file through Tread.
So, I almost only use the points announced, apart from the repeated announcements in the headset and the limitation to 29, I don't see any disadvantages to this practice (yet).
To transfer my routes into the gps, I don't work with BaseCamp. If the XT2 is connected, it announces that the XT2 is not supported by BC even though it works. In addition, it puts the routes in the internal memory of the GPS with all the inconvenience that this causes when you want to import several routes in succession. He only keeps the last one imported.
I prefer to paste my .gpx file into the Memory Card/Garmin/GPX folder where all the .gpx files will be kept.
For the length of the Via Points name, I'm going to do some road tests to see how it displays. Peobody answered my other questions.
For the documentation on the 590, thank you but your tutorial: "Zumo XT and Basecamp - Everything That You Need to Know" viewtopic.php?t=1464 is very very complete and oriented towards the XT (not yet for the 2). He really taught me a lot of interesting and even essential things. Thank you for the work you have done.
Until now, I was only using MapSource with my 2011 Zumo 660. With the purchase of the XT2, I am almost forced to work with BC because the routes made with MS are even more recalculated than those made with BC. So, constrained and forced, I switch to BC and I discover the subtleties that are not always positive as well as the interactions with the XT2, again not always positive.
Kind regards

[twowheelstom]

the Garmin MapSource program is being discontinued, I mean Garmin programmers are not focusing much effort on updating it, Garmin programmers are focusing on the Basecamp program instead. It's like having and owning a 1929 Ford car, you like the car and want to keep it running but it gets harder and harder to find parts for it and harder to find any mechanics that know how it runs. same with MapSource programs, its an old program and sometimes will not work best with newer Garmin GPS models like the XT2. Try to use Basecamp and learn how to work with it as best you can.

[lkraus]

the Garmin MapSource program is being discontinued, I mean Garmin programmers are not focusing much effort on updating it, Garmin programmers are focusing on the Basecamp program instead.

"being discontinued" is an understatement. Garmin stopped development of MapSource in 2010.

Garmin programmers stopped development of Basecamp about seven years ago. They have only removed features since then, and made a handful of minor bug fixes.

[jfheath]

Hi jfheath,
Thank you for your reply.

You are welcome !

Regarding the naming of the waypoints, it's complicated between the English and French versions and Garmin hasn't done anything to simplify things. In Belgium or France, we do not talk about "Via Points" or "Shaping point". On French-speaking forums it's a mix of POI (Point of Interest), Waypoint (waypoints), etc..., it's confusing. Only those who consult the English-speaking forums talk about Via and Shaping point.

There is a lot of confusion about this. There is also a lot of incorrect information. If you are reading forums like Facebook then much of it is very misleading, wrong or mischeivous.

Via Point = Announced Point
Shaping Point = Un-announced point.

Yes - both of those are good alternatives - and if you were to use these terms ont his forum, we would know exactly what you mean.

Waypoints - Locations that you have saved (eg flag tool in Mapsource, or in Basecamp). They can be put into a route and must be set to be either announced (via) or unannounced (Shaping)

I consider that the announced points will not be changed when importing the route into the XT2. For unannounced items, it's less clear. In certain circumstances (recalculation of route, change of profile, or fad of the XT2) they can be renamed or simply removed from the route followed by the GPS.

Ok - I have never had my hands on an XT2 - but this is an answer that I would give if you had an XT. I think the answer may also apply to your XT2.

The XT changes the names of any route point (announced or unannounced) seemingly at random. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. This has been a big issue for me - I like to number my route points - but the XT changes them. Sometimes. The same is also true of the 590 and the 595.

There is nothing that you can do about this ------ Except 1.
Make use of the saved Waypoints. On the French Language Zumo - this are Ou Aller -> Enregistre
You create a Waypoint on Basecamp using the Flag tool.
You can create a Waypoint and then add it to the route. Then set it as either announced (via) or unannounced (shaping). These points will also retain their name

Except 2. See the end of this message for more news on this.

It doesn't matter how to get from point A to point B, but if you want to go through the beautiful little road parallel to the main road, it won't work. In these circumstances, I regret my Zumo 660, which is much more user-friendly in this regard. He followed the route he was told, one point, that's all.

The XT introduced a new method of routing. Faster time now seems to cause the Zumo to head for the nearerst fast road, rather than working out a number of possibilities and choosing the fastest. So if there is a main road somewhere behind you that is heading towards the place that you want to
be, than often, rather than choosing the road ahead, it will head for the fast road behind you. Your 660 didn't use to do this. Neither did the 590 or 595. But you would see it if you were riding parallel to a motorway.

To prevent the XT from doing this, it is necessary to use more shaping points. Not many more. For example if there is a motorway nearby and you want to travel on a parallel side road, one route sahping (unannounced) point is often not enough. The Zumo will visit the unannounced point, turn round and go back to join the motorway. But if you split your parallel road into thirds. Place one unannounced point a third of the way along, and another 2/3 of the way along. It usually prevents this from happening.

You can make the XT behave very much like the 660 by using only shaping (unannounced) points - but the XT will stillcalculate the actual route using faster roads, if there is one nearby - if you allow it to. Use the shaping points to stop it.

I think that, the XT2, as it works in .gpx and no more with .gdb routes, recalculates constantly and even more so if you pass your file through Tread.
So, I almost only use the points announced, apart from the repeated announcements in the headset and the limitation to 29, I don't see any disadvantages to this practice (yet).
To transfer my routes into the gps, I don't work with BaseCamp. If the XT2 is connected, it announces that the XT2 is not supported by BC even though it works. In addition, it puts the routes in the internal memory of the GPS with all the inconvenience that this causes when you want to import several routes in succession. He only keeps the last one imported.

That is a feature that I mentioned in my last reply. If you transfer from Basecamp to internal storage, it saves your routes to a file called temp.gpx. If you disconnect the USB cable and then reconnect it and transfer more data, temp.gpx will be overwritten.

But yf you transfer everything that you want to transfer tot your Zumo without disconnecting the cable between transfers, then it will all be retained in temp.gpx

BUT... I also discovered that if you put tracks into Internal Storage/GPX then the track will be imported automatically. However, the track data itslef will then be deleted from the gpx file. In other words - the gpx file is altered.

This may be a necessary feature of using Explore - or Tread on the XT2. I really don't like Explore for the way that I use the XT, and I have disabled it - but track data still gets deleted once it has been imported to internal storage.

However, if you create GPX files from Basecamp, and put them in the SD Card / Garmin / GPX / folder, the Zumo cannot alter or delete them.



Keeping route point names intact. (2)

@FrankB and I have both been stumbling around this issue for a while. Frank had a solution that works, but it is not an easy or practical fix for anyone to use without risks. But we know that MRA routes rarely have their route point names changed - which is how that solution developed.

Then I came across a situation where my route point names had not changed - but could not recall what I had done in the days before that would have caused that to happen. But I told Frank. Then he stumbled across a similar situation, and he described it to me. I spent much of last night trying out different scenarios - observing when it worked and when it failed. But there seems to be one four click method that works. Every time. in every situation that I could think of.

Watch this space. Frank is about to publish it on here, and I will include a summary of the tests. But we need to be certain first.


[edit]. viewtopic.php?f=48&p=20126#p20126



@chrou54 - download the pdf from the first post. The first 2 chapters describe how the Zumo 590 can be used with BAsecamp. Most of it also applies to the XT.

viewtopic.php?t=521


From this document the pages on this forum relate to the XT - but place much less emphasis on the link with Basecamp.

viewtopic.php?t=1464

[jfheath]

Method to retain route point names described here:

viewtopic.php?f=48&p=20126#p20126

[chrou54]

Jfheath,
Thank you for the pdf. A wealth of tips and tricks
Additional questions: If I make a route only with "via" points, the simple act of returning a point via "unannounced" automatically turns it into a simple "shaping point" that can be renamed or passed without warning on the road?

It seems that the "shaping points" are ignored by the XT2 during a recalculation where the GPS follows the "faster time" configuration instead of the prepared route. If my route is composed of the "via points" A,B,C,D and the "shaping points" i,j,k,l,m,n,o,p,q,r,s,t and recorded like this A-i-j-k-l-B- m-n-o-p-C-q-r-s-y-D. If a recalculation takes place between via point A and B: the shaping points i,j,k,l may be modified.
Are the shaping points between B and C and then between C and D also likely to be modified or will only the A-B sequence be recalculated in the XT2 way?

Subsidiary question: what's the point of adding "shaping points" to a route if you're not sure that the GPS will take them into account?