Number of Waypoints and Snap to map

[Keef]

Hi.
I've just tried to map a new track to create a route (not created a new one from scratch for a while) - created the track ok but when I created a route from the track (profile and map options set) I was not prompted for "number of waypoints" and ended up with a route with only start and end points (despite a handful of waypoints) and the route won't snap to the road.
Any suggestions?
Rgds

[jfheath]

Hi @Keef

What program are you using ?

Do I understand you correctly ? - You are wanting to create a track so that you can use the track to create a route with route points so that the XT will navigate from one point to the next?

If I have understood you correctly, that seems to be a long winded way of doing things.
Its one of those situations where the answer might be - I wouldn't start from here. I can understand why you would want to do that if someone had given you a track. - but if you are starting from scratch ..... No.

There are at least 6 ways that you can use the XT to help you to navigate.

So What do you want as an end result ? A point to point route where the Zumo decides how to get from one point to the next - and you use more points to force it to use particular roads ?
Or a track - a line drawn in a map - with or without turn by turn directions ?

And what software are you using ?

[Keef]

Hi - thanks for responding to my problem'

I collect rides used by motorcyclists in our group so they can be catalogued and re-used.
In the past we have suffered with problems when trying to share rides between riders with different devices but we found if we share the rides as Tracks each rider can then prepare the ride, from the Track to generate a GPX for their own device (there may be a better way but this is what we have been doing)
So the first part of the answer to the question "what am I trying to achieve" is - a means of cataloguing and sharing sharing navigatable Routes across different devices.
The problem I encountered over the weekend arose because I had several bits of a ride with some bits missing. We had been riding and the GPX we were using was prepared by someone else and during the day it failed. When I got home I decided to recreate the ride on Basecamp (Version 4.7.5) so I download the tracked activity from my Zumo in to Basecamp - But as we finished the ride at different stages I was a few sections missing so I decided to join together all of the bits of Track I had downloaded and then plot out the missing bits of Track (from scratch) to complete the Ride. The Track I had downloaded was very detailed and followed the road precisely. The Track I had plotted was only marked at junctions with a few shaping points so it was basically a series of straight lines. I thought if I joined all the bits of Track together and then created a Route it would all Snap to the road and then I could create a complete Track from the complete Route that I could save for future use and share between devices. (A Track that can be prepared against proprietary maps and devices to create a navigatable GPX)
But, the create a Route process did not present the Number of Waypoints box (but thinking about it I've not seen that for a while!) and the Route I created did not Snap the last sections of Track to the roads (so it may or may not navigate - it doesn't look right)

Hope that provides an insight to what I'm trying to achieve and the problem I encountered at the weekend.
Regards
K

[danham]

Keef,

If I'm understanding correctly, your issue seems more of a Basecamp question than an XT question. If so, you may want to try what I've used in somewhat similar situations. Get BC to display all of the pieces of the track(s) that you have, then use the BC route tool to "trace" a new route that follows the tracks and fills in the missing portions along actual roads.

-dan

[Keef]

Hi Dan

Yeah you're right, it is a BC problem - I should have spent a little more time thinking before typing.
I tried as using Route tool to fill the gaps as you suggested, then created a Track from the Route, and then joined it all together and it works fine. I can now complete my Route/Track and it all snaps to a road.

Many Thanks.

But is this the only/best solution?

Regards

[Peobody]

But is this the only/best solution?

I am fairly new to the GPS/Basecamp game being in it for a little over two years now. I ride with a small group in which several members create routes in Basecamp that the get shared before a group ride. We have come to the consensus that the best way to minimize routes being calculated differently by different devices is to use a lot of Waypoints placed on the roads. The idea being to use enough of them to prevent the device from finding what it thinks would be better roads between points. It is a tightrope walk though. Too many and the notifications become annoying, too few and the devices end up with different routes. The trick of distributing both a track and a route has been helpful to the members who can, and choose to, show the track on the map. The track will not be changed by the device so is handy in revealing any device calculations that caused deviation from the intended route.

[lkraus]

I thought if I joined all the bits of Track together and then created a Route it would all Snap to the road and then I could create a complete Track from the complete Route that I could save for future use and share between devices. (A Track that can be prepared against proprietary maps and devices to create a navigatable GPX)

I think you have the right idea, but the order of the track<>route conversions can be improved a bit.

When joining segments, BC creates straight lines between end points of tracks, but when joining non-contiguous routes BC will create a new route segment that snaps to the roads.

I would probably load the tracks you have into BC, use a right-click on each one to "Create Route from Selected Track", select the new route segments (with Ctrl-click or Shift-click), then right-click to Join the Selected Routes. Check and edit the newly-created portions of the route, then right-click the entire joined route to "Create Track from Selected Route".

With all the differences between makes and models of GPS I would not attempt to archive/distribute a route unless I knew that all members of the group used the same device. Even then, I would include the track in the GPX along with the route.

[jfheath]

Thanks for clearing that up ! It all makes perfect sense now.

A few comments.

Joining tracks.

In Basecamp you can access the dated activity logs from Internal storage. Create a folder for your tracks and a list within that folder for a particular date and name it so that you will recognise it. Highlight all of the tracks in internal storage that have the correct date and are within the right time frame. Right cluck copy Then paste them into you new folder. When you select the folder it will show all of the sections so that you can verify you have the correct ride. Delete anything you dont want.

Copy the name of the first track segment into the clipboard. Highlight all of the sections and right click and join selected tracks. Do you want to join them? yes. Do you want to delete the originals ? yes. (these are copies, remember). Select the name Track, and paste the copied name instead - made up of date and time - or whatever name you want.

Basecamp has joined them in the correct order. If you double click the track you get a table of every single point. Highlight the top one and lean on the cursor down key. You can watch the highlighted cell move aling the track. Any glitches become very obvious, snd the places where you did a circuit of a housing estate after misunderstanding the satnav instruction.

These points can be multi-selected in the table. The map shows the selected track in brown. Tap delete to lose them and basecamp joins the remaing parts together.

Creating Routes from Tracks

Any automated process to do this is very hit and miss. It relies on you guessing how many route points are enough. You guess 20. It then divides the number of track points by 20. Say 10,000 / 20 = 500. It then goes through and gets rid of 499, and keeps 1. The opposite of decimation, where every 10th roman soldier was killed as a punishment to the legion.

So you have 20 points, but not necessarily in the place you want them. You will want more if for example your route is running close to a main road. In Scotland for example, in the mid 1970s they rebuilt the main A9 that runs from Edinburgh to Inverness. This has left the old main road intact in lots of places and these are brilliant interesting (not straight) country roads that are regularly used by cyclists and motorcylists, and are largely traffic free. But getting your satnav to keep on the B7076 when the new A9 runs almost parallel to it, is a pain. I use the trick of using two shaping points between junctions where the route might stray. One point 1/3 of the way along, another 2/3. This almost guarantees that the route will never visit the shaping point and then double back to the faster road.

Ive never been impressed with the results if create a route from a track. I prefer to use BC to put in a few waypoints - I mean saved locations. Possible cafe stops. Name them and then ask BC to create a route. Then use the rubber band tool to place points that get the route to follow the track. I never put points near to junctions - unless BC tries to take a shortcut up side roads.

Once the route is done, I make a track if the route - to eliminate the chance that the original track had some unnoticed trips to the toilet.

Personal preference

People have their own way of doing things. Having the track and the route gives them everytthing they need. Having a few named waypoints puts those key locations in their favourites / saved - and the Zumo will never rename them.

Give your crew some instructions.
Put the gpx file on the memory card - it eliminates a lot of problems on the 595 and XT and maybe the XT2. I dont know yet.
Make sure you have a waypoint saved in internal storage. If not, tap the map and make one
Tell them to find out how to display tracks and routes simultaneously
Tell them how to use Closest Entry point. XT, XT2. (I think)
Tell them how to RUT proof their route.
Always pass through the first point. Never start with the first point behind you.

Get back in touch in a few weeks when you have finished reading this. I have notes - even a printed booklet - on the above.

[smfollen]

Keef wrote:
I was not prompted for "number of waypoints" and ended up with a route with only start and end points

When converting a track to a route in Basecamp, set the activity profile to Direct before selecting Create Route from Track. It then allows you to specify the number of waypoints. After the route creation completes, switch the activity profile back to motorcycling and recalculate the route.

[Keef]

Ha Thanks for that I hadn't noticed the default on the tool bar had changed from Direct to Bike.
Rgds
K