XT2 and MyRouteApp - Shaping & Via Points

[adm]

I am just back from a week in the Black Forest, taking a group of 12 bikes on some of my favourite roads. It was the first trip using the XT2. I have done the same trip for the last 3 years using a regular Garmin XT, and the behavior of the 2 devices is very different, so I would value your opinions....

I mainly use MyRouteApp to create and edit routes, and I find it very good indeed. Normally, I will create a route by putting in the "Must Go Here" points - MRA calls them Via points, and the Garmin must plan a route through these points. Then I fill in with shaping points to set the actual roads I want to ride along. I use quite a few of these. Then I export the route from MRA to Drive (old XT) or Tread (XT2). This has all worked out pretty well for me.

I label each via as "Coffee Stop", "Fuel", "Lunch" etc...

The original XT followed these routes really rather well, but the XT2 seems to be much more aggressive about ignoring my shaping points. In the end, I had to resort to changing many shaping points to Via points to force the XT2 to actually take the roads I wanted to ride. Which is less than ideal as I like to be able to select a particular important Via as my next destination, rather than having a long list of them with road names that mean nothing.

So - any thoughts on how to force the XT2 to actually use the shaping points from MRA?

I normally export the GPX files as V1.2, so I guess there might be an option to export a track into Tread and then covert that into a route perhaps?

[Kokkie]

Export in MRA as GPX 1.2 with the "connector". Thus, also with a cable connected to you XT-2.
(Don't use the Tread app)

That will give you a Route AND a Track on the XT-2, Route will be inclusive of your Via points.
Use the Route to navigate, and the Via points wil be included together with estimated time/distance, and called out as you named these points.

Don't convert the Track into a Route, as then you will lose the benefits of the Via points.
You could visualize the Track underneath your Route (with a different colour) to see if the Route follows the Track correctly.

Let us know if this works for you...

Mike

[smfollen]

You might try exporting GPX 1.1 instead of 1.2. I don't use MyRouteApp but I have heard of issues with shaping points when exporting to the 1.2 format. It could be that shaping points are exported as route point extensions when 1.2 is selected but as shaping points when 1.1 is selected.

If you look inside a Garmin style gpx file containing a route (with a text editor), you will see that there are 3 types of route points - via points, shaping points and route point extensions. Note that these are route points, not waypoints, which are something different. All three of these route point types are Garmin extensions to the GPX (1.1) standard. These extensions are sometime handled differently by various hardware and software vendors.

Route point extensions, sometimes called hidden or ghost points, are generally the results of route calculations. Only the via and shaping points are used to calculate or recalculate a route. When a route is imported to Basecamp or a Garmin device, all 3 types of route points are initially used to display the route, however, on recalculation, the imported route point extensions are ignored and replaces based on the newly calculated route.

This means, if MyRouteApp using gpx 1.2 exports the shaping points as route point extensions, they will be lost when Garmin recalculates and the route will be based only on the via points.

Bottom line - again, try exporting gpx 1.1 instead of 1.2.

[Kokkie]

That could be correct, and even if not, an impressive piece of text

My guess is that transfering the GPX file by cable AND using the MRA export function (connector), will leave the GPX file in a useable state.
That is:
- A correct Track in your XT-2.
- A correct Route in your XT-2, including the VIA points.

Use the route as conveniënt, however do not let XT-2 recalculate, cause then it will most propably give you an other route.
(Even with "recalculation OFF", it will still recalculate if you don't start your route when you are not actually present ON the route)
I guess this is caused by the effect Smfollen describves in the post above

If it doesn't work you can always choose the Track on your XT-2 and let the XT-2 transfer it to a Route.
Then you will have the correct route, however without the VIA points, i guess just like a GPX made in Basecamp.

Happy driving,

Mike

[adm]

You might try exporting GPX 1.1 instead of 1.2. I don't use MyRouteApp but I have heard of issues with shaping points when exporting to the 1.2 format. It could be that shaping points are exported as route point extensions when 1.2 is selected but as shaping points when 1.1 is selected.

Bottom line - again, try exporting gpx 1.1 instead of 1.2.

I think you just nailed it...

I just went into one of the routes from last week in MRA, reset all the extra Vias back to shaping points and then exported to Tread. In the Tread app, the route looks correct and I can now see the shaping points as blue dots with the route passing through them. My key Vias are all listed as they should be.

That then synched to the XT2 and the route looks perfect on that as well.

One interesting thing to note is that when selecting GPX 1.2 routes from MRA in the XT2, I would often get a message that said something along the lines of "vehicle profile not supported - recalculate?". This seems to have disappeared using GPX 1.2.

So.....I think you are exactly correct. GPX1.2 is exporting the shaping points in a format that Treat then discards. GPX 1.1 shaping points get kept.

Absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much!

[adm]

Export in MRA as GPX 1.2 with the "connector". Thus, also with a cable connected to you XT-2.
(Don't use the Tread app)

That will give you a Route AND a Track on the XT-2, Route will be inclusive of your Via points.
Use the Route to navigate, and the Via points wil be included together with estimated time/distance, and called out as you named these points.

Don't convert the Track into a Route, as then you will lose the benefits of the Via points.
You could visualize the Track underneath your Route (with a different colour) to see if the Route follows the Track correctly.

Let us know if this works for you...

Mike

Thanks Mike,

The cable route is a no-go for me as I don't like to travel with a laptop. I just take my iPad and phone as I find the iPad perfect for route creation and editing on the fly in MRA and being able to wirelessly send routes to the XT/XT2 is a must have for me.

But....it looks like smfollen just gave the perfect answer - just export as GPX 1.1 in instead of 1.2. That seems to work perfectly, even though a little more testing is needed on my end.

[smfollen]

... a message that said something along the lines of "vehicle profile not supported - recalculate?".

Garmin supports a number of "activity profiles" - Driving, Motorcycling, Hiking, etc. For some devices / software, routing preferences (e.g. faster vs shorter route) and avoidances (e.g. tolls, highways, ferries) can be set per activity. If the activity profile specified in the gpx file is not supported by the software / device importing the file, you will get a message like that.

Unfortunately, what actually gets written to the gpx files, and how it is handled on import, in not consistent. To get similar route calculation results between your route planning app(s) and your XT2, set preferences and avoidances as consistently as possible across them.

You can find plenty of posts on these subjects in this forum. JFHeath's "Zumo XT and Basecamp - Everything That You Need to Know" viewtopic.php?t=1464 is a great place to start.

[Kokkie]

...just export as GPX 1.1 in instead of 1.2. That seems to work perfectly, even though a little more testing is needed on my end.

But then you take for granted that you won't have the VIA points in your route TOGETHER with their respective time/distance predictions and call-outs....
Am I correct?

Mike

[smfollen]

But then you take for granted that you won't have the VIA points in your route TOGETHER with their respective time/distance predictions and call-outs....
Am I correct?

What you ask is more complex. A device or routing app calculates a route based on the user specified via and shaping points, AND the map(s) it has installed, the user's settings for routing preferences and avoidances, and the particular routing algorithm programmed into its software. Different devices and apps will often calculate different routes from the same specified points. The route will always pass through all of the specified points but the paths between those points may vary.

Once a route is calculated, it will contain the original specified points plus additional "hidden" points which are results of the calculation. When a gpx file is exported, typically the via and shaping points, and the additional route point extensions are written into the file, along with the activity profile name and some (but not all) of the routing preferences and avoidances. (GPX file content varies by device or app, gpx version, etc. as discussed above.) Mostly the gpx file contains a large series of points (locations specified by latitude and longitude) which represent the route. You might think of it as dots on a map.

When another device or app imports the gpx file and recalculates the route (based on the original via and shaping points but not the hidden points) it may not result in the exact same route due to any map, preference, avoidance, and algorithm variations. As a result, the paths, travel times and distances between route points may vary.

Using the same versions of the same maps, as well as similar settings, across devices and apps, will minimize differences.

[adm]

...just export as GPX 1.1 in instead of 1.2. That seems to work perfectly, even though a little more testing is needed on my end.

But then you take for granted that you won't have the VIA points in your route TOGETHER with their respective time/distance predictions and call-outs....
Am I correct?

Mike

Nope. The Vias all seem to import fine and the times and distances get calculated perfectly.