XT2 and Tread app - how does it works?

[Treve]

Hi
For future decision I have to really understand how it works. I think the manual for XT2 is little dissy in its learning. Is the intension from Garmin this:

- Planing trips in the Tread app
- From Tread to the cloud on Garmin Explore
- From the cloud to XT2

Ore is it possible to transfer direct from Tread to XT2 with out involving a third part ?
The upside with Tread app on a Tab or iPad is the fact that it is easier to plan and change routs on a slightly bigger screen than a cellphone but still have the freedom from a PC/Mac computer in reach.
A wish will be wifi ore BT transfer from a Tab/iPad to XT2.

I have thou never liked the idea to spread al my digital tracks into different clouds and web sights that needs accounts logging. Maybe using my personal stuff selling it to AI-companies making loads of money on my account.´I knew I most probably already am deeply down in this creek but want to struggle as long as I live.
Regards
Anders

[jfheath]

Hi @Treve / Anders

From your post, I am assuming that you do not have an XT2 at present. Do you currently have a Garmin satnav - if so which model ?

How does the link between you Tread App and the XT2 work.

Tread is a route planning app for both iPad/Iphone and Android systems. It needs to have a connection to a garmin account which only you can access with your Garmin account name and email address. Tread doesn not have a program that can be installed on a PC or Mac.

There are a number of ways that you can create a route for the XT2.

1. Create a GPX file using a third party standalone or web-based tool. This can be sent to the XT2 in what has become Garmin's traditional moethod of loading routes. This method will always require the XT2 to recalculate the route that it is sent. This is because the XT2 is able to set separtae routing preferences for different segments of the same route.

2. Use the Tread Route planner to create a route. This is a little awkward on the small screen of a phone, although I can manage it- even with my larg fingers. The result is saved to your Garmin account - transmitted by Wifi or by phone data. This is synchronised with the XT2 pretty quickly - depending on how much data has to be transferred. There are indications on the XT2 screen when each route, track, waypoint has been received.
It is possible to use an Ipad and an Android phone to update the same route. I know, because I have done it. Each of the three devices synchronise over a couple of minutes.

3. Use the Tread Route Planner App on the XT2 screen. The functions in this are the same as the functions in the Trea Apps on phone or ipad.

4. Import Waypoints and/or route points into the XT2 and use those to build or edit a route. The last two options can be carried out without any connection to wifi or phone data at all. You just build a route using your saved points or point and click via/shaping points and save it. It is the most powerful on screen route planner that Garmin have produced for the Zumos that I have seen.

Editing - Having built a route, it is possible to change the order of the Via Points - this is best achieved using the List view. However, when you have moved Via points, and shaping points that are in the segment between those via points are lost. That makes sense on the XT2 itself - although people used to using Basecamp (like me) will be confused and irritated by this behaviour. But it just requires a change of approach. Get your Via Points sorted out first and fixed in place. Then add shaping points. Shaping points are added to a segment in sequence - and the order cannot be changed - so again, it is a change of behaviour.

There is an Undo button ! Unheard of on many well known on-line route editors, but a time saver for Basecamp users. Try something, get it wrong undo. The Undo button exists on both versions of the Tread app, and also on the XT2 itself.

Does the XT2 display the RUT issue ? Like the XT - it does not display this issue on a route that has been created on the Zumo itself. Nor does it display the issue for routes create using the Tread app and synched. It may display the issue for routes that have been imported from GPX files.

Do I like the XT2 ? Well - I have the 590, the 595, the XT and the XT2 - all charged and ready to use. I have two brackets on my bike. One for the XT, one for the XT2. I am happy now I know how to fix the RUT issues on the XT. But I go out with the XT2 without any backup Zumo attached. The XT2 is the one that I am using.

Am I happy with the XT2 ? Not entirely. It has some 'features' - and it recalculates Basecamp routes - which is annoying. I can find ways around the problems but they are a bit messy. But I am still using it.

I still have my XT. Knowing what I know now about the XT2, would I still go out and buy one? No - probably not. The XT irritated me for a long time with its stupid routing behaviour (The RUT issue). But we have a way to stop that from happening and it is now as reliable as my 590 or 595 are.

Why did I buy the XT2 then ? Simple - I wanted to find out more about it. I had read a lot of silly, ill-informed comments about its behaviour, which lead me to believe that there was some really clever stuff going on that was not well understood. That intrigued me. Indeed there is a lot of very clever stuff going on. It really is impressive.

The XT2 comes with permissions to download free maps that cover much of the globe. UK Europe, USA, Africa (parts), Australia &NZ, Middle East, South America.

Much of the XT2 improvements devlop the ideas that were started in the XT regarding synching via BT to a route planning app that you can take on tour with you. As such it moves fuirther and further away from the BaseCamp solution - but with the Tread APp it has fully implemented the synching and the use of collections to make access to the data on you zumo easier. There are even different ways that you can sort your routes, tracks and waypoints.

And it now calls routes, "routes" rather than trips. And it calls waypoints, "waypoints" rather than Saved or Favourites.
I've had Zumos since 2005. It's good to see how quickly they managed to come up with a solution to that anomaly.

[smfollen]

@jfheath Much thanks for this post - very informative. A question below if you don't mind. A bit of context first.

Tread does not have a program that can be installed on a PC or Mac.

This is a deal breaker for me, at least in terms of route planning, so I still use Basecamp on a PC. I find phone and tablet screens to be too small. The XT2 screen is a bit larger than most phone screens so I'd use that over the phone in a pinch. My tablet is a Microsoft Surface (neither iPad nor Android). I don't see a point to spending more money for another tablet that is still too small.

The tread app does have additional useful functions, of course, however:
- It still seems to be a work in progress as evidenced by the frequent updates with no useful release notes. Your post viewtopic.php?p=22549#p22549
- I had tried Tread a while ago. As soon as I let it sync to Explore, it made a complete mess on my existing routes. I saw at least one post here where someone else had the same issue. I removed Tread from my phone and have avoided it since.

So, my question(s):
Is there a solution / work-around / avoidance to the issue of Explore making a mess of existing routes?
Or am I missing something?

Thanks

[Treve]

Hi again
Sorry "jfheath". I did´n mention that I so far am a lucky owner of a XT2. Most for the brilliant screen comparing to my previous 595 (still in my collection of GPS:s) and it suffered severely by the battery issue. Current rests for 10 minutes unconnected. I rather bought the XT2 than a third battery to 595 that most fore sure won´t solve the problem.

I have perfectly well learn routplaning in BC but well on the go it should be nice to use an inhouse Android Tab and that bigger screen. But I am not that interested in spreading al my routs and other information on the Garmin-cloud. A wish is that one may update routs directly from Tread on a Android/iPad with wifi ore BT. Why on earth must it take the detour via Garmin-cloud?!

Good - then I knew how it works an may take action from that. I once had a small laptop for this travelling routing but that little beast fortunately stopped working.
Best wishes
Anders

[jfheath]

So, my question(s):
Is there a solution / work-around / avoidance to the issue of Explore making a mess of existing routes?
Or am I missing something?

I've decided that I can use the Ipad quite well to plot routes using Tread. (Not so the Explore App that pre-ceded it). Although it is a new learning curve and I'm not going to rubbish it when there is even the remotest chance that is me not adapting quickly enough to new technologies.

I can also put togther a pretty good route using either the phone or the screen on the XT2

This is someone who has resisted the notion of using my phone for MyRouteApp, or Google maps. (Actually that takes no effort in resisting at all). and has big clumsy fingers. But unless I have to, I won't bother. I'll put togther a video of me doing something on the XT2 screen or the ipad that covers things that Garmin's video don't.

Existing routes. I'll delay the answer on that. I'm still looking at what happens with Basecamp routes and when it recalculates them.
The XT2 defaults to using a "zūmo Motorcyle" profile. Which means that any route prepared on any other route planning app will be using a profile that it doesn't recognise - and that forces a recalc. I've checked this out by changing a Basecamp produced gpx file to have "zūmo Motorcyle" instead of "Motorcycle" for its transportation mode, and that single test did not get recalculated. But I didn't check it again and I didn't test what issues that might create.

When people say that it recalculated the route and made a mess of it - it is hard to work out what they actually did. Most routes from external devices, transferred by gpx file, will get recalculated either on load or during use. So it is better to try to predict how the Zumo is going to calculate a route - eg by knowing that it will often head for a nearby faster road than head for the next route point - and plotting shaping points accordingly.

I always plot a track and show that on the screen - so that if the route recalculates, I can see where my original route went.
A big issue for me is that the Tread App will not export the route as a track ! I have a very messy way to get hold of that if I need to - so I am not worried too much.

I have transferred routes from Basecamp to the XT2 and they worked perfectly well - but in planning it I do things automatically becasue I know that any other way can casue issues - so it isn't a fair test.

If I wanted to really test something out, I could just as easily plot a route for the XT and almost guarantee that it would cause the user problems - just by doing the sort of things that people do when they don't know how to set up a foolproof route..

[smfollen]

Thanks John,
I have had good success building routes with Basecamp that work well on the XT2. I have also been following your posts about Tread (and other topics). I always learn something from them. I'll probably reset the XT2 to a clean slate and try Tread again sometime soon.

Existing routes. I'll delay the answer on that. I'm still looking at what happens with Basecamp routes and when it recalculates them.

I very much appreciate your efforts. I look forward to whatever you figure out. I will keep careful notes of what I do and the results I see so we can have a conversation about specific Tread / Explore affects on routes imported from Basecamp.

I'm all for new and improved technology despite the learning curves involved.

[jfheath]

@Gusman just 'liked' the original post - which alerted me to come back and look at it.

The original post was written a while ago. Since then reports and evidence have been lodged with Garmin. But nothing has improved matters.

So the current position is this:

You can fix RUT behaviour by using the XT2 menu to copy the route and run the copy, not the original. This sets the mImported byte to be false and routes then behave themselves. The other XT1 methods work too - but this can be done on the XT2 screen wherever you are.

Video of this is here

Note that the @ symbol in the name is not for anything special - I just wanted to mark the file as being a RUT free copy. I was looking for the copyright symbol, but the XT2 doesn't have one.

You can get rid of Tread's influence - If you reset the XT2 to factory and delete Tread from your phone. Then install Tread on the phone but do not allow it to store data / synchronise (They have changed the question that they ask). This allows Tread to be used for traffic, weather, roadworks, fuel station data to be sent to the XT2 - but it does not synchronise data with the Explore database - which is what appears to be presenting the problem.

If you don't want any of the above - then don't install the Tread App at all.

At present, that for me provides a perfectly good XT2 - December 2024