Is this RUT?

[jfheath]

Basecamp works perfectly well with the XT2.***

To get the track on the map you need to have the track in Collection - or it will be in the Unorganised collection. You cannot do this in BAsecamp, but you do it with routes when you import them. The offer is there to add thing to an existing collection, or to create a new one.

In a nutshell you have to make the collection that contains the track, visible.

The following sounds like a lot to do, but once you get the hang of it, it is straight forward. Every trip I make - everything goes into a new collection. That makes it easy to hide everything else fromt he screen and just display the stuff that I want.

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To import a track manually to the XT2.
Main Screen -> Apps (4 squares) -> Tracks -> 3 dot menu on the green banner ->Import

The XT2 tells you where the gpx folder is located eg Memory Card, and it shows the full path name and filename of the gpx file containing the tracks that it has found.

Select the track. An 'Explore' import menu pops up saying what is has found to import - waypoints, Routes, Tracks. Choose whatever you want to import by selecting the tick box. Next

It then asks which collection to put it in. I suggests using the same one that you put the route in. Or tap New collection and it will then display this new collection in the list for you to select. Import.

This take you back to the Explore Screen (everything in here will sync with you Garmin account).
The Explore screens have a green banner. Tap the green banner to choose what you want to display.

All; Waypoints; Tracks; Routes; Courses; Collections.

It makes sense to choose collections and select the one that you have named (or you could access it from the Tracks option.

ANyway - once you have the track, tap it. It shows the track on a small map. Tap the Spanner. Set the colour. I choose black.
Scrool dwon the list of options - notice that it belongs to a collection. Not which one it is in.
Tap Done. Go back tot he green banner Explore screen.

Tap the green banner. Choose Collections.

Note that there a number of eye symbols on the right of the list. Some have a line trhough them. Others don't.
At the top on the green banner are a number of options. One is the eye symbol. Tap it and it turns all collections on. Tap it again, it turns all collections off. If you keep your route, waypoints and track in one collections then you can turn them all on or off at this screen.
Turn everything off, and then tap the ey alongside the colelction where your data is.

This will show the track on the map. There are other things you can do to make it more visible when the route is on top. That's for another post.

****

To get a route fromBasecamp into the XT2 you can send it via the USB cable. Personally , I prefer to create everything in one gpx file and put that onto the memory card. The XT2 recognises the route that you have plotted and will draw it as it is. However, it doesn't recognise 'Motorcycle'. I have yet to establish whether that simple fact means that the first thing that it will do is to redraw it.

But there is an easy get out of jail trick.
When you have transferred your route, load the route using Apps->Route. THat route should be an exact copy of the one you created in Basecamp.
Click the SPanner.
Choose Copy
Give it a slightly different name. eg If your original was called MyRoute, then save the new one as MyRoute Copied.

This takes an exact copy of the route, but it makes it into a Saved XT2 route. And XT2 routes never have the problem that you might have heard described as RUT behaviour where the Zumo (in certain circumstances) will repeatedly demand you go back if you have to deviate from a route.

But you must make this copy before you actually load the route by saying 'Go!'.

[Treve]

Hi again
Tracks are imported and visible.
I have also manage to adjust a copy of a theme file making the track wider.
Al thanks to my study on this forum.
Thanks
Anders

[Sean OZ]

@jfheath

Thanks again for sharing your wealth of knowledge and experience with us all!

I was reading up on how you commented on how to force RUT situation.

"How to force a RUT situation.
Chose a route with a section that has two distinct options - eg take 1 side of a triangle or two sides of a triangle.
Know where the tipping point is - the point where it is shorter and faster to continue ahead than it is to turn back.
Place a Via point before these two options and a via point after. No other route points between on either option.
Place a 'Skip Via Point' about a mile after the start point.

Sorry but I don't quite understand, what you are saying when you said ...

"Place a Via point before these two options and a via point after." ?

Place a 'Skip Via Point' about a mile after the start point ?


How do I "Place a 'Skip Via Point' "

Could you perhaps show the before and after via points, and the skip way point scenario, as a simple triangle diagram for me?

Thanks'

[jfheath]

Ok Sean

See the map. Click on it to get a better view.

Note that there are three via points. 01 the start. 05 the end. 02 an additional Via point that is plotted soon after 01 on the road that the route was following anyway. It makes absolutely no differce to the route whether it is there or not.
As soon as I enter the road on which Point 02 is plotted, I am going to Skip it. This forces the Zumo to recacluate the entire route. This is why it is there. It is a quick way to force the Zumo to recalculate the current route.

Later on the route itself has two options - with no roads that link them. I can look at the preview map to see which way the Zumo prefers. Whichever it is, I am going to take the other one.

So on my map it has calculated the red route. I am going to take the green.

It really does help if their is not much difference in time between the two alternatives. In this case the green route is 12.7 miles, the red route is 17 miles. But in terms of fastest - Basecamp calculates the green as faster. THe Zumo calculates the red as faster. In fact there is only a minute between the two calculations.

THis is very handy becasue as soon as I have traveled half 30 seconds down my green route, it is faster to carry on that way than it is to turn back. I give it 3 minutes. If the Zumo is still asking me to go back, I am pretty certain I am stuck in a RUT, and it will continue demanding U turns to go back to point 03 - first aid box - until I am less than a mile from point 04 where the two routes meet up again.

Another way of getting a similar result is to find a rectangle of roads with no roads joining them. I have one between the A1 and the A19 bounded northe and south by the M62 and the A65. All very major roads. There are plenty of country lanes going across, but the XT2 will not look at those. Put your start point well before one corner of the rectangle and an extra Via point so that you can skip it. Put then end point after where the roads meet diagonally opposite.

You will never get a RUT situation if you build the route on the XT itself. It only happens if the route has been create on another route planning app. Eg BAsecamp, MyRouteApp, Kurviger etc. If you have sent it to the Zumo by cable, by phone, by drive, or as a gpx file on the SD card or internal storage - those are the routes that are likely to be affected by the RUT issue.

But there are a number of fixes. One is Javascript solution. Another is to Load the imported route and then save the active route. That method adds an additional route point - where you are - at the satrt of the route. But you just slect the original start when you load the resaved version. Both routes then behave as if they were built on the XT itself. Perfectly.

Finally - I have used an Open Source 1:250,000 OS map. I can do this legally providing that I say :
Contains OS data © Crown copyright and database right 2021

[Sean OZ]

@jfheath
Thanks' jf. Once again, a top-notch detailed reply to my questions!
Hopefully tomorrow I will be able to set up a scenario along the lines you have advised.
I will definitely get back to this thread and let you know how it went.

[Sean OZ]

Planed out 2 short 10-minute routes in BaseCamp with two possible ways to my end destination. I then transferred the data for both of the separately planed routes, (one at a time) to the ZumoXT2 from BaseCamp program on my laptop, to the XT2 unit. I used a direct cable connection for the transfer of the GPX file info.

I chose "Select All" option during the transfer procedure and placed each of the new routes, in their own new separate "Collection" in the XT2. For the purpose of this post, I'll call the 1st created route "Alpha" and the 2nd created route "Delta"

I then started up the XT2 and told it to load route "Alpha". At the first possible opportunity, I purposefully deviated from the planed "Alpha" route. At first the Zumo kept wanting to take me back to the original route. But I simply told it to "skip" the next way point (The single waypoint had been automatically added to the GPX file by BaseCamp) the XT2 then let me just do my own thing and it then quickly worked out an acceptable new route to my final destination. There were a multitude of possible ways to get to my final destination, but the XT2 successfully calculated the shortest route.

I then once again returned to my original starting point (not following any active route) This time I then told the XT2 to load the "Delta" route. XT2 did the same thing again, first wanting to force me back to the planed route as soon as I deviated from the planed route, but all I had to do aging, was select "Skip" the next way point and it then behaved the same as it did when I first tested it using the "Alpha" route scenario. (IE: auto calculated an acceptable new route to my final destination) So all in all I'm very happy with the way the Zumo XT2 behaved today using 2 separate routes that were created using BaseCamp on a Windows11 PC.

I will also once again test it all out on a much longer ride mid next week and see what happens then.

On a bit of a side note, for the life of me I don't understand why every time I transfer a new GPX file from Base Camp to the XT2 it also wants to transfer the GPX file for what i think was the very first track I ever potted out in BaseCamp. All the data for that first GPX track file was deleted form BaseCamp long ago. I might try and do a complete fresh install of BaseCamp and see if that gets rid of the "phantom" track file.

[jfheath]

I'm not sure what RUT stands for? Repetitive Uturn, redundant uturns. ridiculous uturns?

When I first came across it - two thoughts about what was happening popped into my head. One was technical - something that programmers would understand but not many others - It is stook in a recursive loop with no exit condition. The other was an old vinyl record with a damaged groove which makes the stylus jump out of the groove and into the adjacent outer one - so it keeps repeating the same thing over and over again. I don't know if it is a UK expression, but 'being stuck in a rut' is the phrase that covers that situation.

And I thought it was kind of cute that RUT could also be an acronym for repeated U turn. I wanted a phrase that I could recognise as belonging to this behaviour - so I coined the phrase "RUT behaviour". LIke everything - people pick up half the story and use the term in situations where the XT is NOT actually stuck in a RUT. If you are heading from Canada and want to get to Mexico then it is quite reasonable for the satnav to repeatedly want you to turn south if you keep travelling north. That isn't RUT behaviour.

I've read many, many threads on how to get the XT2 to behave as most would want it to. I've written Garmin may times, only to be told that what my XT2 is doing is "by design". I would really like to get into the same room as the designer.

They use that phrase because there is no answer to it. Sometimes it will be true. The problem is that when they design a solution to one thing and it affects something else that they haven't thought about ... it becomes an issue for us. Like the moving shaping point is a design feature possibly to cater for the many users that create their routes on different mapping software - on transfer or import (don't remember which) all of the points are vetted and adjusted, and even have their names changed so that the planned route has got route points that actually lie on a road. But surely they didn't mean to relocate a shaping point to lie on the fastest route when it is specifically placed to take a country road ? Becasue that is what it does. Unintended Consequence ?

We still have to keep complaining though. They do not seem to respond to things that are causing people grief. They seem to respond if it is likely to affect them as a commercial enterprise. When BMW used the 590 and 595 for their Nav V and Nav VI - they were on the case very quickly with complaints from BMW owners - in particular - the Skip button was introduced becasue there was no way out of the exact situation that you describe. As I understand it, BMW riders complained to BMW. BMW raised the issue with Garmin. They hadn't though of it until then. But BMW have a lot of clout, and Garmin would lose their custom. I don't think that BMW use Garmin satnavs any more. I don't know whether to read anything into the fact that Garmin no longer maintain a publically available software update log.

I designed a route in Basecamp. (So, I can't ask Garmin for help.) It is a simple loop, except there is one leg where I leave the loop for an ice cream break, then retrace that leg back to the loop and continue on my merry way. Today, the ice cream leg was closed off. So, I simply kept riding the loop. HUGE MISTAKE. The XT2 started by telling me to make a uturn in 3km. Now, if it thought that I needed to make a uturn, why would I get further away by 3km to make it? I ignored the instruction. After I passed the 3km mark, the XT2 said to make a uturn in 850 metres. Same question. I ignored that one, too. This went on for about 5km, at which time, the XT2 actually started navigating again.
It seems that the XT2 is incapable of re-calculating a route when I deviate from it. I have an old Nuvi that has no problem with this task at all.

That is perfectly normal behaviour if you placed a Via Point at the ice cream place. Via Points have to be regarded as locations that you will definitiely pass through. If you had placed a shaping point there - it would certainly ask you to turn off to get to the shaping point. As I understand it - when you passed the junction - you were still on the magenta line (you said you retraced your steps) that being the case and with only a shping point missed - All zumos from the 595 (and 39x series) upwards would continue to navigate ahead.

In such cases - I often plot optional coffess stops - just in case (rain, wind, comfort breaks). I mark them with a shaping point. I may put a via point (created as a waypoint) ahead of it so that I get an alert "Approaching Optional Coffee Stop in one mile on the left". I always put a Via Point on the road that I will be riding whether I visit the coffee stop or not - Coffee Stop Exit. That way if I accidentally stop the route while the satnav is in my pocket, I can start it again. When you say go!, the satnav gives a list of the Via Points. So I select Coffee Stop Exit and it will get me there no matter which way I go.

Is there some way to convince the Zumo to stop telling me to make uturns and to simply navigate to the next point on the route? If not, can someone please tell me the best accelerant to use to burn this damn thing?

Thanks much.

Grant

You will never stop it from telling you to U turn - if that is the best way to go, and you have missed a Via Point. The only way of it not asking you to go back to a missed Via Point is to skip the via point. But skipping a Via point is dangerous. The entire route is recalculated and the XT behaves very differently after that - including getting trapped in a RUT loop if you deviate from its route. I haven't fully tested the XT2 - but that situations has certainly been the same on my favourite test route for RUT behaviour.

Answers. Dont use Via Points unless you intend to visit them.
If you have to SKip a Via Point - beware that odd things will happen if later on you have to deviate from the route. Stopping, restarting the route and select closest entry point is a good emergency solution. But check the preview map before saying go.

But here is a very nice cure-all. It doesn't happen if the route is buit entirely on the XT or XT2. You still have to be aware that you MUST go through each of your Via Points.

And the XT2 has a superb copy facility. Import your route. Select it so you get the preview map. Click the spanner. Scroll daon and select Copy.

This gives you an identical copy of the original route. Name it the same but with a code that you can recognise it as copied (beware putting it at the end of a long name, 'cos you will not be able to see it) . Run that.

The XT2 is fooled to believe that the copy has been built on the XT2 itself !

That will NEVER display RUT behaviour in the same situatiosn where the original route did display RUT behaviour.

[Sean OZ]

I do remember now the XT2 behaving "oddly" after I had used the skip button. It did create a new route after I told it to skip a waypoint, but when I once more deviated from the new route it had recalculated it then started displaying RUT behavior again! As I had already skipped the only waypoint on the route, it then kept trying to force me back onto the new route it had created, after I initially told it to skip the upcoming way point.

the XT2 has a superb copy facility. Import your route. Select it so you get the preview map. Click the spanner. Scroll daon and select Copy.

This gives you an identical copy of the original route. Name it the same but with a code that you can recognise it as copied (beware putting it at the end of a long name, 'cos you will not be able to see it) . Run that.

The XT2 is fooled to believe that the copy has been built on the XT2 itself !

That will NEVER display RUT behaviour in the same situatiosn where the original route did display RUT behaviour.

I must remember to try the Copy route trick also!

[jfheath]

I do remember now the XT2 behaving "oddly" after I had used the skip button. It did create a new route after I told it to skip a waypoint, but when I once more deviated from the new route that it had recalculated it then started displaying RUT behavior again! As I had already skipped the only waypoint on the route, it then kept trying to force me back onto the new route it had created, after I initially told it to skip the upcoming way point.

I must remember to try the Copy route trick also!

For an imported route, eg from Basecamp, MRA, Rever, Kurviger, any gpx file - Once Skip has been pressed the entire route is recalculated. I believe that it produces the same type of route that is created when you convert a track to a trip. This has no route points, and when you deviate it heads for the closest point in the route. Track-Trips can also display RUT behaviour.

XT2 seems to be better at dealing with it than the XT1 - in some situations. Eg it seems to limit the number of U turn requests and then tries other options. But it still fails miserably in many other situations.

The XT1 used to display other weird characteristics after Skip was pressed on an imported route. It would actually remove route points from the route if you ignored the instruction to turn towards them. I have yet to perform that test on the XT2, but I have videos of it doing this on the XT 1.

But none of this ever happens with routes that are created on the Zumo itself. The Zumo has a flag that lets it know whether a route has been created and saved on the Zumo or whether it has been imported. For the XT1, we had a method to change that flag - and it cured the problem. The same method works on the XT2. But the copy route feature is new, and the copied file behaves as uf ut was created on the Zumo.

Always copy your routes and do it before pressing Go!

[Sean OZ]

This afternoon on the way home from work I rode the exact same route as I have previously mentioned, BUT this time I made sure to make a COPY of the route I wanted to test for RUT behavior and selected the "Copy" of the route before pressing GO.

With the "copy" route running, the XT2 was then straight away able to determine that I was purposely deviating from the loaded route and successfully navigated to my final destination (even after I deviated from the loaded route twice) and this time I didn't notice any RUT behavior!

As this was only a very short 5-minute ride, I'm still look forward to planning and testing a much longer 2-hour ride to fully see what will happen, and if using the simple copy route function on the XT2, (of the original GPX file imported into the XT2 from BaseCamp) solves all the RUT headaches.

Will let you know how it goes.
So far, so good!