Deleted Routes Reappearing

[FrankB]

while using Trip Manager that @FrankB was kind enough to share with all of us. (It is a great tool.)

Thanks for the compliment @smfollen!

I have never seen anything like this on my XT. So I assume it's specific to the XT2. If I understand @Regain correctly he is not using TripManager, so the 'problem' doesn't look related to TripManager. Sigh.

Dont expect that I can be of much help, but let me know if you think I can.

[smfollen]

Sorry @FrankB, I could have been more clear. I do not think the reappearing routes have anything to do with Trip Manager.
As, I said, Trip Manager is a great tool. I hope many other zumo XT and XT2 users give it a try.

Based on what both I and @Regain have seen, it appears that the zumo itself is restoring or recreating some deleted routes. What it is using to restore or recreate them remains a mystery so far, but whatever it is, it certainly appears be information stored within the zumo itself.

[FrankB]

That is how I interpreted it. Thanks for clarifying.

[jfheath]

I wonder if this is of any help.

If you want to delete a route from the XT2 you MUST delete it from the XT2 screen itself. That will remove the trip file AND remove the relavant lines from Current.gpx.

I'll write out some notes that I took while I was testing TripManager behaviour - specifically with the XT2 - for @FrankB

On creating routes with TripManager using the .trip option and starting up the XT2

• The route planner open up and it is necessary to tap the Tick button to accept the route that it has calculated from the .trip file and then click the Save icon.

When Trip Manager is Next connected to the XT2

• Trip Manager can now see the route that the XT2 has calculated it and it can be displayed in the map window.
• Current.gpx now has a copy of the full route (including the gpxx route point extension (ghost points).

When the route is next displayed on the XT2

• All is OK.
• The route loads up without the need to calculate
• All route points have kept the same name as given in the gpx file.

If the .Trip file is deleted (either directly or by using Trip Manager

• The route still exists in the XT2 collections / Explore menus
• If you load the route and start navigating, a new trip file is created for that route.

If the .trip file and curren't.gpx are deleted (when conencted to the computer by USB cable)

• The route still exists in Explore on the XT2 (I don't know where this is stored, but it still has it).

If the route is deleted using the XT2 screen using the Explore menus

• The trip file is deleted (as well as the route in current.gpx)

IF a Trip file created by TripManager

• AND route is calculated and saved in Route Planner (which opens the first time the route is selected)
• AND is then deleted by using the XT2 screen (Explore / Collections / Routes menus)
• THEN the route is deleted from the XT2 and the .trip file is deleted and the route is removed from Current.gpx.
• ALSO the route does not reaappear after a restart.

If you want to delete routes from the XT2

• Always delete them from the XT2 screen first.
• And if you want to delete everything from the XT2 - then delete everything using the XT2 screen
• And then delete current.gpx, temp.gpx and any other gpx files that contain routes/waypoints/tracks from the GPX folder in Internal Storage.
• And delete any GPX files from the Garmin/GPX folder on the SD card.

The above is true for all of the Zumos since the Trip Planner app was introduced. 590 series, 390 series, 340 series and both XTs.

Apologies if some of this info repeats the same stuff. I was testing, and often you have to repeat the same test in a number of different circumstances. Eg with a gpx file in place, with a trip file in place, with both files in place.

The situation is different from what you might expect when using TripManager - because it turns out that:

• If you have a trip file but not a gpx description of a route - The XTs create a gpx file (it is part of current.gpx)
• If you have a gpx entry (in current.gpx), but no .trip file. It creates a new .trip file.
• If you have both, but one of them has changed then you get two entries in current.gpx, each with their own .trip .file

That means that you can expect unexpected results if you create both a trip AND send a gpx description of a route. The XT1 and XT2 may see them as the same thing, or it may not. It may depend on what order you allow the Zumo to process things. If the Zumo sees a route that doesn't have a trip file, it creates a trip file and gives it a unique random number for its name. So if you are using TripManager exclusively, and you have trip files with random numbers, then that is sign that the XT2 has found a gpx version of your route somewhere.

I was specifically testing Trip Manager with the XT2 - because initially, TripManager would not work with the XT2. I may have made assumptions that my comments above may also relate to the XT1. That may be wrong. The reason that TripManager did not work with the XT2 was due to the way that it needs to set up communication between the XT2 and the Tread App. Garmin set up this link for every individual route for which it creates a .trip file. Without this key piece of information, the route will not load. So between us we worked out how to provide that link. The link is different for each route and each user and I think it may be that fact which causes a new gpx format route to be calculated for each .trip file and a new .trip file to be calculated from each new .trip file.

So it is possible that the XT1 may behave differently from the above.

[FrankB]

@jfheath As usual a very informative post John.

Would it be an idea to add a check in TripManager when you delete a .trip file to check for the existence of the tripname/routename in current.gpx? And if it has found the same name show a warning.

[jfheath]

@jfheath As usual a very informative post John.

Would it be an idea to add a check in TripManager when you delete a .trip file to check for the existence of the tripname/routename in current.gpx? And if it has found the same name show a warning.

Maybe - but deleting both .trip and the entry in current.gpx doesn't stop the route from re-appearing ! This sort of behaviour that was seen in some of the early zumos. But a check like that would flag up that somebody has deleted something and perhaps they are expecting it to have disappeared.
But it won't . It will be recreated - with a different ID. (I wont give its proper name in a open chat).

That check won't flag up if someone has deleted both trip and current.gpx

I haven't tested this, but I would think that on one reboot, the copy would be recreated (either the .trip file or the gpx 'file'), and on the next reboot the other 'file' would be created. (I say 'file' because the gpx version is a section of current.gpx, not a separate gpx file.)

I have this note in my notebook that I kept:
"If I delete a .trip file and Current.gpx the route is still present in the Explore app on the XT2." (That would have been after reboot.)

I don't think I discussed it with you during our team meetings - because I recognised that behaviour from years back - and the issue is separate from Trip Manager:
It is similar to the behaviour that we found when deleting routes from other Zumos. You must delete the files on the zumo and then delete the current.gpx and temp.gpx files - withoutletting the Zumo reboot. And then do a cold restart. Otherwise they get copied back from somewhere at boot up time.
@sussamb and I had conversations about this many moons ago. At that time, we had not found out where it was getting the copies from.

[FrankB]

It is similar to the behaviour that we found when deleting routes from other Zumos. You must delete the files on the zumo and then delete the current.gpx and temp.gpx files - withoutletting the Zumo reboot.

Does that mean the 'problem' is reproducable on the XT? If yes I can have a look.

[jfheath]

I would expect that to be the case. Certainly that delete from Xt first and then current.gpx etc without allowing it to boot up in between - is what you have to do to purge the XT of everything


And if you have synch to explore enabled. Well it will keep coming back after synching. Eventually they go !

[FrankB]

Will try to reproduce that on the XT. (Can take some time)

[FrankB]

This morning I spent about one hour trying to reproduce 'reappearing routes' on my XT. In short: I can not reproduce it.

I have setup Garmin Drive, but without the option to sync to Garmin Explore. (I can transfer wirelessly and have weather info, but data is not synced to and from the cloud)
Here is what I did:

- Cleaned my XT (Waypoints/Saved (on the XT), System/Trips folder, Gpx folder with TripManager)

1. I took 3 routes that I drove actually last Sunday, each within a separate GPX file and transferred via TM (TripManager)
2. Rebooted the XT, opened the 3 trips so they would recalculate,
3. Connect XT to Laptop, copied current.gpx to my harddrive (1) and checked that it contained the 3 routes.
4. Using TM, deleted the 2nd trip.
5. Rebooted the XT. Checked that the 2nd trip was gone in TripPlanner.
6. Connect XT to Laptop, copied current.gpx to my harddrive (2) and checked that it contained the 2 routes.
OK

Performed the same steps. Except for step 4
1. I took 3 routes that I drove actually last Sunday, each within a separate GPX file and transferred via TM
2. Rebooted the XT, opened the 3 trips so they would recalculate,
3. Connect XT to Laptop, copied current.gpx to my harddrive (3) and checked that it contained the 3 routes.
4. Using TM, deleted the 2nd trip AND transferred trip 1 and 3 again.
5. Rebooted the XT. Checked that the 2nd trip was gone in TripPlanner.
6. Connect XT to Laptop, copied current.gpx to my harddrive (4) and checked that it contained the 2 routes.

I'm NOT questioning anyone's statements, when multiple well documented observations exist. I just cant reproduce it on my XT.