A simple but a very specific question….

[Gidi Ferder]

In a previous post I tried to find out if it’s safe to plan routes for the 660 with Base Camp. Thanks to those who tried to help but I am afraid that the answer I am looking for can come only from a rider who planned routes with Base Camp and actually executed those routes with the 660.
Anyone who fits this description is more than welcome to respond.
Thanks in advance
Gidi

[jfheath]

My answer to your previous post still stands.

I used to use Basecamp with my 660. No problems. But things changed, so the answer will depend on which features of Basecamp the user uses. eg Basecamp uses shaping points and via points. The 660 doesn't.

The last comment I saw from Garmin suggested that it seemed to work, but in unidentified circumstances it caused problems. You may find that some people have no problems, some people will.

See this link.

https://support.garmin.com/en-PH/?faq=m ... uEfv1lPvv8

Scroll down to the bottom.

[Gidi Ferder]

What you are actually saying is that it will be impossible to get an answer that I can rely on… hmmmm frustrating…
But what do you mean by: “the 660 doesn’t use waypoints”? My 660 is loaded with way points…

[jfheath]

I didn't say that it doesn't use waypoints.

I said that it doesn't use via points and shaping points. The emphasis being on 'and'. It uses one, not the other. I can't remember which. I'll go and find out and report back.


Right.

Mapsource refers to intermediate points as Via Points. However, the gpx file contains no reference to Via Points when you study the file in a text editor. It just refers to each route points in a <rtept > tag.

Basecamp on the other hand, lists every <rtept > tag as being either a Shaping Point or a Via Point.
Put crudely, as far as Basecamp is concerned Via Points pin the route to a particular point, they will announce on arrival on the later satnavs. You have to visit them. They are drawn as an orange flag on the screen and are considered as stopping places within a route.
Shaping Points simply pin the route to a road, but they are flexible. If you miss them out and rejoin the magenta line after the shaping point, the satnav will continue as if nothing had happened.

The 660 has only one type of route point. The 590 and later have two types of route point. BC is written for the later models.

The 660 does not know about Basecamp's Via Points or Shaping Points, but it seems to treat all route points in a similar way to BC Shaping Points.
However, when modifying a route on the 660, it asks if you want to add the new point as a new destination or as a Via point within the route. But it has a different meaning on the two devices.

If you create a route in Basecamp with only Shaping Points, the 590, 595 and XT will behave just like the 660 does. So the 660 Via Points behave in a similar way to the Basecamp Shaping Points used in the 59x and XT ! But I cannot say that if you used only Shaping Points in Basecamp that this would prevent the problems occurring. But I'd be inclined to think it might be possible. But I really don't know. I only found out about Via Points and Shaping Points when I swapped my 660 for a 590. I've never been able to go back to a 660 to find out.

Waypoints - well they are something different - according to Garmin. Waypoints are locations that you save for future use. They may have additional information - name, address, post code, web address, tel number. You can include them in a route, but when you do, they become just a route point (albeit with additional info). Garmin's definition of Waypoints has been consisten throughout all the Zumos.

In the later zumos they can be made into a via or shaping point.

Did you have any luck in reinstalling Mapsource ??

[sussamb]

Would be via points, earlier devices didn't do shaping points

[Gidi Ferder]

Wow! That’s what I call is an elaborated Anaswer! Man many thanks! Now it makes sense why those so called “bugs” of the 660 will never be solved.
Am I too understand from this is that my best bet to work with BC and 600 is to plan the route based on pre saved waypoints for all the critical turns or other areas that need precise navigation. True?

[jfheath]

Am I too understand from this is that my best bet to work with BC and 600 is to plan the route based on pre saved waypoints for all the critical turns or other areas that need precise navigation. True?

No, I don't think so. There are a number of options.

1 Get Mapsource to work. It has worked with Windows 7 and it is currently working fine with Windows 10. I have it installed and use it every now and then when people are having problems. Like Now.

There have been a couple of occasions when I have had to re-install it. I don't remember why - I probably never knew. Something updated and over-wrote something that Mapsource used. It should pick up the maps that are installed for Basecamp - they both use the same maps.

2. Use Basecamp and use only Via Points - so that would mean making every point a Waypoint before creating the route. Give it a try. I cannot guarantee that this will work, but it is worth a shot.

3. Create a Custom Route with No Profile. It doesn't matter what type of points you use.

Start off creating a rough route for the motorcycle with a few route points. Then open up the route properties by double clicking the route name or the route line itself. Click the Route Options tab at the top and where it says 'Choose Activity Profile' click the Cusotmize Route Options Button. Untick all of the avoidances, transportation method is motorcycle. Set Route Preferences to Faster Time. Close down the dialog box.
Your route should now be listed with a yellow faceless figure. instead of a motorcycle.

Now open up the route properties again. Position that dialog box on the screen so that you can see the route as well.
This allows you to fiddle around with the route settings. Ideally, your route should remain the same no matter what avoidances or routing preferences are set - becasue you will be placing points that means that the satnav will have no other option than to follow your route.

This makes it sound like you need a lot of route points, but you don't. One point in the middle of a tretch of raod may be all that it takes. One point half way along, or two points - say 1/3 of the way from each end. You may need more if this results in short cuts through housing estates or farm tracks ! You will definitely need more if the road you are riding has a faster main road running a few hundred yards to one side.

With this Customised route, when you make a change in the dialog box, you don't have to close the box down to see the changes, they happen as soon as you place a tick. Note a section of road that needs pinning down, close the box and work on that section. Repeat. If for whatever reason the route doesn't recalculate, you can close down the box, right click on the route and select 'Recalculate Selected Routes'.

When you are happy with the route that is plotted without avoidances and with Route options set to Fastest Time, change its profile to Direct. This will result in the points being joined with straight lines. Make all of the point announce on arrival (Vias). Send that to the Zumo. I cannot remember what the 660 will do with this - but hopefully it will recalculate it. If it doesn't, then change the Zumo's vehicle to a car, and then back to a motorbike. That should force it to recalculate.

Doing this gives you a gpx file that contains only the route points in the correct order. You know that this series of route points gives you a usable route on Basecamp. The Zumo may calculate something slightly different - but if you make sure that it too has no avoidances (except maybe farmtracks, tolls, ferries), then it stands a good chance of getting the same result.

I have compared the gpx file from Basecamp witht he gpx file that Mapsource produces. The only difference is a pair of Via Point tags that the 660 may or may not know what to do with. In between is a code to inform the Zumo that the next section is navigated as Direct. That will definitely be stripped out when the Zumo recalculates the route for motorcycle.
But - I cannot try this out, but it stands a much better chance than sending the fully plotted route across.

4. Your suggestion. Build up a library of Favourites / Waypoints on the Zumo, transfer those to make it easier to create a route on the Zumo itself.

One VERY redeeming feature of the 660 is that if it screws up on a long trip, just restart it, reload the route. No you don't want to go to the start, show the map on the screen and ride to the magenta line if you are not already on it. As soon s you join it it will start to navigate from there.

[Gidi Ferder]

Again many thanks for this precious knowledge of yours!

Regarding MapSource:
I tried to reinstall with no results. But I will try again nnt erasing everything and reinstalling MapSource and Garmin express
I am well familiar with the program and I usually plan pretty complicated routes. I am organizing motorcycle tours and the focus on those tours is Riding the most twisty and wild roads I can find.

Regarding BaseCamp:
After playing with it for a real short time I can see that it’s a much more convenient to use and manage the routes. As far as planning it’s not that different by nature so I should command it very quickly. Also, I think it’s time to advance to the Zumo XT.
Now, if you don’t mind a few more questions:
1. If I start using BaseCamp, can I load old waypoints and routes that are saved on my 660 to BaseCamp?
I have a load of routes and points that were saves on previous maps. Now my maps are all updated.
Or should I start fresh and rebuild all my data on BC?
2. I don’t give up my 660 so easy. I will try your method of planning without a profile selected. Same question regarding old points and routes, will it work or start fresh?
3. The third option you mentioned “my suggestion” I don’t understand quite what you mean: I thought that my idea us no. 2 - to use BC and waypoints only. In your third option you offer to b
Create the points in the Zumo? It’s murder? Or did you mean transferring via points but creating the route on the Zumo (Also not a big fun)?
Excuse me if miss understood you. I must admit I never invested the proper time and effort to really understand those machines….
G

[jfheath]

1. Yes. Basecamp will talk to the 660 if the USB connection is set up in the right way (or it did when I had one). If not you can access routes and such like using the computer connection.

2. You can get all of your old routes, tracks and waypoints from the 660. Its quite easy, but may involve changing a setting on your Zumo.

3. My #2 suggestion was using Basecamp and create routes with Via Points only. My suggestion #4 was using the Zumo with Saved Waypoints - which was what you mentioned in the previous post. Via Points and Waypoints are not the same thing. Waypoints appear in your Zumo as Favourites or Saved Locations. Via Points are any route points which announce on approach and arrival - which may or may not have been first created as Waypoints.

Create Waypoints in Zumo - yes doing anything route planning wise is murder on the Zumo. But if you need to, it helps to have some routepoints saved in Favourites - ie Waypoints. Building a route based on those isn't too bad.

Don't be frightened to keep coming back ! I'll keep trying to help.

[Gidi Ferder]

Ok, you asked for it
Referring to your reply by no.
1. I know that and I saw it can be done. What I’m asking is if copying old favorites that were saved on older maps before the maps were updated, will not corrupt the location. Can I rely on them?
2. If this answers the above question, please explain what type of settings changes should be made?
3. So waypoints are those locations that I’m saving and integrate them in the routes. Via points are the points I’m marking with mouse while planing? Correct? Tgarding announcements I have those turned off so I can’t tell what and when my 660 anounnces.

And a new one:
I just opened the map info on my 660 and for some reason I have three map files with check boxes:

1. CN Europe NT 2021.10
(1) ALL
2. CN Europe NT 2021.10 BASIC 3D
3. CN Europe NT 2022.10
(1) Tirane, shqiperia, andora Graz

I remember that during the last update there was not enough memory space for the full map if Europe. Was I suppose to delete the 2021 map? And the basic 3D. Shouldn’t it be updated as well?