Weird Routing Behaviour (2)

[Peobody]

They can build up a profile of the rider's style of riding, speeds, type of roads, preferred routes.

This is madness. It makes me think of my car. I was (still am) really frustrated with how it drove so I expressed my complaints to the service manager. Come to find out, the car and I are fighting. It is continually adapting to my driving style while I am continually adjusting to how it drives. I rarely accelerate hard, but sometimes I need to. The car shouldn't refuse to just because it has 'learned' not to. When the battery failed under warranty resulting in the car being without power for a number of days, it drove like a different car afterwards (for a little while). Maybe every XT in a group needs to be reset before loading a .gpx file for a group ride. Madness!

[rbentnail]

I'm not surprised by that behaviour.

Apart from the various ways in which the route may have been altered by Basecamp (by loading into a profile with different preferences, by having different maps, etc); on transfer to the XT (eg different Basecamp Settings, different maps); by the XT on loading or starting off, there are plenty of other factors.

The XTs can load a route and then apply the route preferences stored in the individual XT. They can build up a profile of the rider's style of riding, speeds, type of roads, preferred routes. Unless you can control all of the alternatives, every step of the way, two XTs are very likely to come up with different routes.

Whether what I am about to type is actually true (or even partially true) I don't know. But it seems to help by reducing changes to my routes when transferred and imported. Give it a try, see what happens:

In Base Camp, double click the route name bottom left and the box pops up. One of the tabs is Route Options. Pick it.

Here you can tick Customize Route Options and select the options you want. You can also change average speeds although I never have.

When you customize the route, you will see the icon next to the route name bottom left change.

I have never had a customized route change upon transfer or import. I believe customizing tells the XT to use my chosen preferences instead of applying its own but again, I have no idea if this is true. It just seems to work.


edit: additionally, if you put routes on the SD card, you can customize them there too when connected to Base Camp. I use the SD card exclusively. I NEVER transfer routes to internal memory. This also seems to help.

[jfheath]

That is curious.

I like using custom routes because you can change options and see the results immediately on the map. No need to close the properties dialog box, and there is no need to wait for it to recalculate the other routes that use the same profile - 'cos 'custom' is not a profile.

BUT. In this situation, none of the preferences that you set are transferred to the Zumos - except for 'Shorter' or 'Faster'. None if the avoidances or speeds.

(Normally, the Routing Profile name that is used in Basecamp is transferred, but the Zumo recognises only the Driving and Motorcycle profile for on-road use, and if it doesn't recognise the name, it defaults to using 'Motorcycle'.

I did a lot of testing on this behaviour so I know that all of the above is correct - for the 590, 595 and XT.

But I have never looked into what you describe, so that is a definite area of interest. I wonder if it leaves the route point names intact too. Hmm

Interesting. Thanks @rbentnail

[Peobody]

I have never had a customized route change upon transfer or import. I believe customizing tells the XT to use my chosen preferences instead of applying its own but again, I have no idea if this is true. It just seems to work.

This reminds me of my very first exposure to BaseCamp (before I found you). Riding buddies who used it recommended always customizing a route even if it is nothing more that unticking/reticking an option. I did that until understanding that most of those settings are not passed on to the XT. I liked the XT more in early ownership than I do now which has me wondering if there was an unrecognized benefit to customized routes. I believe that customizing is harmless so if there might be benefit, I'm firing up BC and customizing the seven routes of my upcoming trip right now.

Thanks @rbentnail for mentioning this.

[lkraus]

FWIW, I made a duplicate of a route in Basecamp, clicked only the customize button on the duplicate and exported both routes to separate gpx files. Then I compared both files using Notepad++, which highlights any differences.

The only real change is that within the <rte> section, the original includes

Code: Select all

      <trp:Trip>
        <trp:TransportationMode>Automotive</trp:TransportationMode>
      </trp:Trip>    

and the "Custom" route does not have a <trp> section at all.

The Automotive activity profile is my default for all routes, and is identical to my Motorcycle profile, and the auto/motorcycle usage settings on the XT also match. It's just simpler that way...

I always "Send To" the SD card, and I never find that the XT changes routes while loading after import. The issues arise when I change the route and let the XT recalculate. Then, about half the time the result is neither shortest time nor shortest distance, or even on "faster" roads. I know it makes poor choices on local roads, so I don't trust it in unfamiliar areas.

I wish Garmin had just put the XT screen on the 595 and called it good.

[Fxwheels]

I wish Garmin had just put the XT screen on the 595 and called it good.

There're features in the previous versions which had to be moved to the XZ. I have an impression that the group who developed the new software just junked the old one without looking into it.
But hey - latest is not always the greatest.

[jfheath]

I've just tried 4 transfers.

A Custom Route to SD Card -No Calculation on Transfer or on Load - Route used the default M/c profile when in the Zumo as it doesn't recognised Custom

A M/C Route to SD card - no calculation on transfer, import or on load.
A Custom Route to SD Card - no calculation on transfer, import or on load.

I tried the same two routes (renamed so that I could recognise them) to internal memory. Exacly the same results.

When I say - 'No recaclulation' - I mean that it didn't recacluate the routes. The message 'calculating pops up, for a few seconds but it quickly progresses from (say)15%, 75% done in 2 or 3 seconds. What it is putting all of the Waypoints into favourites - which means scanning through the top part of the GPX file. (Incidentally, it doesn't do this if you send to the SD card, you have to import them if you want them to be put into favourites or 'saved'. I wonder if what you are seeing is that it takes less time ?

I noted that all 4 transfer/import/load operations resulted in my route points being renamed - regardless of whether it was to the SD card or the Internal Storage. Only the Basecamp Waypoints (and Favourites/Saved) remained intact.

The Zumos should not recalculate the route on transfer, on import, or on load. If it does, then there is something wrong. Maps haven't been updated; the settings in Edit / Options / Device Transfer are not selected properly (for all units). The 'ghost points' that define the exact route that the magenta line takes - ensures that is the case. And you can follow this line perfectly on the road. It will be the one that you plotted - providing that you don't allow the satnav to ever recalculate the route. This feature remains in the XT. (But guaranteeing that the XT never recalculates might mean doing stuff with the traffic options, and with your riding trends - but I don't know, I have never tested it.

But using this is worth a try. Shape the route in BAsecamp, put in Via Points for where you want to stop. Recalculate the route and transfer it tot he Zumo with the option to strip out shaping points ticked. Make sure that the Automatic recalculation of a route is turned off. And go and ride. If you deviate fromt he route, the navigation goes silent. As soon as you rejoin it picks up from that point. You cannot have missed nay shaping points - there aren't any. You put the Via points at places that you will definitely stop - so if you have gone past one, it will still take you back to it. SKip is available, but that will recalc the entire route.

This actually behaves better than navigating a track, or navigating a track converted to a trip, or navigating an XT route.
I don't know whey they introduced the track to trip feature - when they have this facility.

****



***Basecamp has alway had the option to strip out shaping points from a route. If you create a route with a start, and end and a load of shaping point in between, then ask BAsecamp to strip out the shaping points on transfer - the route remains intact. In much the same way that a track does.

But if it ever recacluates, it only has the start and the end to work with - so the recalculation results in a very different route.
But if you don't allow recalcs - it stays put. It is by using this feature that I was able to determine that when you skip a route point, the entire route gets recalculated - not just up to the next route point.

[Oop North John]

I've only ever been able to transfer routes to a SD card, not waypoints. So, if there's a new waypoint I can see why it won't show in the "Favourites" tab on the XT, but will show in the route when it's imported.

[jfheath]

You have to manually import them from the Favourites / Saved App.

Sometimes, it tells you that there aren't any there. It may well be lying. What it means is that it cannot find any in internal Storage (possibly in temp.gpx ?), so it isn't going to bother looking on the SD card to see if there are any there.

If that happens, just point to the map to create a saved point. Once it has one in internal storage, all of the ones that are on the SD card become available to import.

I've seen something similar happen with waypoints sent to internal storage too. Not certain of the circumstances - possibly if gpx files are sent direct to internal storage, rather than by transfer from Basecamp - or perhaps shared / sent via drive. Not sure. But saving a location from the map, cured that problem too.

Hint - always have a saved location in internal storage. It avoids the problem. Clearly the programmers had - otherwise they might have spotted the glitch. But I told them about it 2 years ago.....

[Min]

The Garmin GPS doe have a way ot going off route even after spending hours planning a route and puttinbg in waypoints and many shaping points and when it goes wrong the reply seems to be not enough shaping points....

So after a going through videos and and information I have documented a way that withou having to hack the reoutes, trips files a simple method works for me.

This involves making a route on BC with a track (track can be made from the planned route only adding the POI you want... NOT putting in shaping points as the track will do that for you from the route.
Copy both to GPS SD card Import the track, import the route and they will over lay each other and it will announce all poi you have placed in the route.

This is documented in the Basecamp Windows section with a PDF file and Garmin Map Themes to improve the routing display.

https://www.zumouserforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=2331

I found it easy to follow, return to the route, join at any point and still get the instruction and announcements.

This work is by others and I have just put it together after years of finding that Garmin GPS had a mind of its own and I hope I have tamed it and documented it for all. Give it a try its simple and it works on the 595 and XT.

Min G0JMS