I thought I was smarter than I am

[Peobody]

I just returned from a three day group ride. I had created three routes in BaseCamp which I exported and distributed to two other group members by email. I thought I had been really smart about my placement of route points to insure any recalcs would not result in changed routes. This was like going into an exam feeling confident and then receiving a failing grade. Recalcs seem inevitable. We had to on the first two days, both due to skips. The resulting routes were different on each device (XT, Nav VI, older zumo (model unknown)). Needless to say, this was pretty frustrating to us all. On several occasions we huddled around the devices looking at the difference. Laughter at the absurdity of the routing created by the "Faster" compulsion of the XT made for some light moments.

None of this is new. There are no solutions other than for Garmin to start treating imported routes as untouchable without explicit permission and treating skipped points in a way that creates new routing only to the closest point on the imported route beyond the skipped point. I suspect that segment would be different between devices but would that is preferable to a modified remainder of the route.

I now intend to create route using an absurd number of shaping points, one just beyond every intersection and at least one every 20 miles along the same road, more whenever there is a parallel road with connecting roads between the two. These will be addition to the POI via points and occasional via points that can serve as meeting points should we become separated.

[colirv]

I've not yet had a problem when sharing routes. My 5-stage process is
a) set the XT never to recalculate routes
b) create route in Basecamp
c) export gpx file, import into MRA and add any further shaping points required
d) un-tick all boxes on Device Transfer
e) send to XT

[Grabcon]

Over the last 10 years or so I have always put a point prior to my turn and just after my turn. I also use point to really represent the route I want to take. Putting points before and after a turn also allow for the ability to reverse a route. I Also zoom as far in as I can to make sure points are on the road and the correct side of the road if divided. Just my 2 pennies.

I have a Zumo XT and my wife has a Zumo 660 and we typically don't have issues. If there are issues with the route it happens on the XT.

[Peobody]

I don't use MRA but all other steps are the same. The issues I encounter only occur when the XT recalculates. I have my recalculate setting set to "Prompt" but AFAIK, the XT recalculates the entire route when you skip a point regardless of what the recalculate setting is or whether the route came from MRA. The big question then is whether running a BaseCamp route through MRA can prevent the XT from recalculating it when a point is skipped.

@colirv, does MRA have the capability to transfer directly to the XT when it's connect via usb? What MRA version do you use (eg: v1.0, v1.1, v1.2)?

[jfheath]

I've been pondering on this very conundrum for a while now. The sharing routes issue, not the being smarter...... You are smart enough to spot exactly what was going on.

I don't have an answer. What I do have is a lot of answers that don't completely solve the problem. Stuff that you know already.

Different Zumos behave differently.

Zumo 660s do not have shaping and via points - but it has route points which behave like shaping points. The route is one continuous section and you can leave it and join it wherever you want and it will pick up the route from the place where you join it and navigate ahead.

You can make the 590, 595 and XT behave like this too. Just don't put in any via points.

With a route like this, if you turn Off-Route Recalculation 'Off' then as soon as you deviate from the route, navigation goes silent. It springs back into life when you rejoin and doesn't bother trying to make you go back.

So this happens with the 660, 590, 595 and XT. Although there are some additional odd behaviours with the XT - that do not affect routing. I had a 550, but I was only just getting to work out how the different routing points worked when it stopped working altogether, and Zumo sent me a brand new 660 instead of a reconditioned 550 !

Now it is a good idea to have Via Points in a route - but they really must be placed where you know that you will definitley stop and regroup. Otherwise they can interfere with the above flexibility of the route.

There is one thing that you can do with the 590, 595 and XT. Take a look at the zoomed out map - tap the caption bar at the top, then the map symbol in the top left corner. This shows the route with your position and the shaping and Via Points plotted.

01 Preview Map.png (82.63 KiB) Viewed 3155 times

Then show the trip list for the active route. You can see the shaping points ahead. Find one that you want to navigate to next - assuming that you have to detour. I'm going to miss out the next shaping point, and head for the one after that. So that is the third one from the end.

02 Trip List.png (59.31 KiB) Viewed 3155 times

So the one I want to head for is the one above the Green Dragon Inn.

Tap it. The route will recalculate.
But it has converted that shaping point into a Via. (it is safe to do it this way. It is not safe to convert it back to a shaping point - it will relocate it.

03 Trip List 2.png (60.65 KiB) Viewed 3155 times

Note that this has now edited the route that was imported. You don't give it permissiont o do this, but it has now changed. If you stop the route and reload it, the new Via point will be in the re-loaded route. You could delete it and reimport it from the transferred routes that may still be in temp.gpx - that will be the original - but Basecamp overwrites temp.gpx every time a new USB connection is made and files are transferred. On the XT check it is there to import before you delete it.

04 Preview Map 2.png (150.49 KiB) Viewed 3155 times

Now stop the route, load it again from Trip Planner and when you say Go, the new Via Point will be there to select as the next destination.

05 Where To.png (36.59 KiB) Viewed 3155 times

Its a bit long winded, and entirely unnecessary in this example but on a long route where the detour which may involve going around a mountain rather than over it, having the satnav take you to the other side in the way that it sees best could be useful. The idea is simple. You are making an existing shaping point into a Via point so that you can restart the route and select that Via Point as the next destination. The satnav ignores the route before it and just takes you to that, and continues with the route from there onwards.


But having autorecalc turned off and having planned a route that doesn't force you to have to miss Via Points - is possibly the easiest thing to do. When off route, you have to make your own way - but you can see the magenta line in relation to your current position.

Or mute the navigation instructions. Allow the route to recalculate and make a decision based on what the stanav is now plotting and where the original route went as shown by the track.

Or put the person that has a 590 at the front in charge !!!

[jfheath]

I don't use MRA but all other steps are the same. The issues I encounter only occur when the XT recalculates. I have my recalculate setting set to "Prompt" but AFAIK, the XT recalculates the entire route when you skip a point regardless of what the recalculate setting is or whether the route came from MRA. The big question then is whether running a BaseCamp route through MRA can prevent the XT from recalculating it when a point is skipped.

@colirv, does MRA have the capability to transfer directly to the XT when it's connect via usb? What MRA version do you use (eg: v1.0, v1.1, v1.2)?

I can answer that - but I'd nbe interested in what @colirv has to say.

MRA can transfer to the XT directly via USB cable if you install a program which sits on your computer and opens it up to the MRA website. I won't do that. I'm sure that they have some safeguards in place. I think.

It can create GPX files which you can place in the GPX folder.
Or you can email them to your phone - but last few times I tried the first email went trhough OK, but subsequent ones failed.
If using MRA, I create GPX files, and then send them as an attachment from my normail email program. Drive picks them up and puts them into the GPX folder as separate GPX files. These cannot be deleted by the XT.

No when you skip points, the XT recalculates the entire route - but still keeps to the correct order of shaping and Via Points.

MRA GPX v 1.1 produces a route which contains the main route points, with Start, End, Shaping and Via Points. No data is included about how the route has been calculated to follow particular roads (ie no 'Ghost Points'). The XT has to calculate the route itself. Having done that, if you press skip, it will calculate a new route to the next route point, and also between all other pairs of route points - but it calculated those sections anyway so it is unlikely to change them from what it had before. But that will not necessarily be the same as the route that was procuded on the MRA map.

MRA GPX v1.2 Does copy all of the data (ghost points) that were used to fix the route to particular roads. However, it strips out any shaping points (tear drops in MRA) that were included, and only sends the Via Points (hands) to the gpx file. This means that providing the route is not allowed to recalculate, the route will be identical to the one that was drawn on the MRA map. However, if you press skip the entire route will be recalculated keeping to the order of the route points that it was sent - but it was only sent Via Points. The shaping points are not included in the GPX file.

MRA does not transfer any 'Waypoints' by Garmin's definition. So no MRA route will result in data being added to Favourites or Saved on the XT. MRA uses the term Waypoint to refer to any route point. MRA has a POI facility which are a bit like Garmin's waypoints, but last time I checked, even these do not get sent to favourites/saved. That might have changed. I haven't checked for a while.

5 pages of Info on MRA and XT routes here - with maps to illustrate how the different GPX formats behave on the XT.
app.php/ZXT-P72

So use of MRA solves some issues, but introduces others, and other ways to get round them.
One thing that MRA does manage to achieve - the names of route points seem to be retained. The transfer of routes from BC often renames route points that were not created as Garmin Waypoints

[colirv]

Sorry - late to the party! I don't transfer from MRA to XT via USB. I simply use MRA to determine if my Basecamp route needs further shaping to make it more universal and possibly more sensible. Once I have a gpx that yields the same route on the two programs it is stored in my Basecamp library, including the track generated by MRA, and sent to the XT via USB from there. I use 1.1.