Planned distance not making sense

[Chopperbob]

I planned some routes on Kurviger and exported them to Garmin gpx format.

I imported them in to the web based explorer, but the distance does not make sense at all,... A route is easily double or more shown in km than in reality??

What could be the issue here? Something to worry abt??

thnx
Robert

[sussamb]

First question, are they the same routes or are they different?

[Chopperbob]

Yes they look the same on the map and it is not 2700km from my place to Lake Geneve!!

I am stumped

[jfheath]

Screen shots ??

Or - send the gpx file that you sent from Basecamp to Explore. I'll see if I can reproduce it / find out what the issue is.

------------------

The following are observations that I made a couple of years ago when I looked into the behaviour in detail. It may have changed since then, but I would be very surprised if it has. However - Explore is a web based tool, and they can change that any time they want without notice or announcement.

It is worth noting that Explore does not take any notice of the route (ie the roads traveled) from the GPX file. It takes only the route points - the via and shaping points. Any Saved Waypoints (ie points created with the BC waypoint / flag tool) are plotted on the map, but they do not form part of the Explore route - except they may have been used as either via or shaping points.

Saved Waypoints are plotted as well as the route, not intergrated intothe route.

Explore then ignores the plotted route that Basecamp has produced and creates a 'DIRECT' route - ie joins together the original route points with straight lines. The 'corners' that are created by the straight lines coincide with the position of the original route points. When this is sent to the XT, the XT calculates its own route using the preferences set for motorcycle and selects Faster Time in order to produce a new route without any route points.

When this is navigated it behaves very much like a track that has been converted to a trip: If you deviate from the plotted route, it calculates a way to get back to the closest point of its own route. This can result in a situation where it is forever asking you to turn round and go back - if the closest point is behind you. Once it starts doing that, it continues doing it until you get very close to the original route. But if it spots a closeser point up ahead, then it starts to behave more sensibly again.

There's an example of a GPX file that has been created in BC sent to Explore here. See Pic 4.

[Chopperbob]

I use Kurviger for my route planning, the Garmin Explore is quite unreliable!!!

I will use this as an example:

Netherlands to Lake Geneva; in Kurviger it is 987km

Screenshot 2024-05-21 131647.png (356.98 KiB) Viewed 1697 times

GPX file also attached exported from Kurviger

When imported in to Explorer the route looks like this on the map:

Welll..... Garmin Explore isn't working...

[jfheath]

Apologies - I removed the GPX file from Bob's post because when I downloaded it, it had the appearance of a track log which recorded the date time and speed of an actual ride. And since this seemed to suggest that Bob was going along roads at 150mph, I thought it best not to have such a file on a public forum.

In fact, that wasn't the case. I have just created a route in Kurviger, as Bob did - and that is what Kurviger does. It sets the date and time of your trip (today, now) and suggest how fast you are would travel along the road - and records that made up figure in the track log. So on the one that I have just created, it has me riding into Ullapool at 115mph. I wonder where it gets this information from ? Maybe you can set the maximum speed for different types of road in the software. I don't know, I have never looked.

So I've put the gpx file that Bob posted back for others to look at.

So just to make this clear for any Law Enforcement Officers looking in - the GPX file does not contain a real record.
The 'recorded' speeds in the track are made up by Kurviger.

[jfheath]

The issue with the mileage is quite common. In order to speed up processing, the software tends to take shortcuts, and doesn't actually re-calculate the entire route unless you specifically ask it to.
Also Kurviger plots a route that is made up of straight lines, rather than one which follows the roads. When you use it, it follows the roads, but that isn't what is recorded.

However, I am unable to explain why there is such a massive discrepancy between Kurvigers figures and reality.

Put that route and track into Basecamp and you get much more realistic figures.

[Fxwheels]

I planned some routes on Kurviger and exported them to Garmin gpx format.

I imported them in to the web based explorer, but the distance does not make sense at all,... A route is easily double or more shown in km than in reality??

What could be the issue here? Something to worry abt??

thnx
Robert

My guess will be that Kurviger is not compatible with Garmin. Different maps and GPX lost in "translation".
Can you upload it to Basecamp and see what's happening there? You can correct it and upload to XT.
Kurviger routes is best to navigate on a phone. That's what the software is designed for. I had better luck with Furkot to Garmin. Although I like Kurviger's maps, but not on Garmin...

[jfheath]

Are you familiar with Basecamp ?

I have recreated the route in Bascamp. It took me about 25 minutes - but that was because I was recording a video of the screen and commentating. It could be done in 5 mins.

Steps.

Create a new list folder
Create 2 new lists in the list folder. Call them Route, Track.
Copy the gpx file to the Route list.
Copy the track to the track list. - drag and drop from the route list
Copy the start and finish point to the track list.
Now work just with the track list.
Change the colour of the track. - I used Cyan - light blue.
Select the start point. Hold Ctrl, select the end point. Create a route from the selected points.


Then it's a matter of using the insert tool to 'rubber band' the route to the roads where the track goes.

You put the new points onto the roads you want to be on after towns, junctions etc. Usually one point in the middle of a section of road, or two points at 1/3 and 2/3 distance works well. Not just after a junction. Otherwise, BC will probably visit the point and then double back. The Zumo will definitely do that !

I got a route with about 12 points total. I added a new waypoint with the flag tool at the cafe stop, and added that to the route.

I made a video of me doing this - but it's not very polished. It took about 25 mins, but took only 5 mins on the practice run. I was trying to explain too much. I'll redo it if you want, keep it punchy.


The mileage is much more consistent. It got it wrong at first, but the route needs recalculating to get it right. When transferred to the XT the mileage was 3 miles different from Basecamp's figure. Basecamp uses more precision in its lat/long coordinates than the XT. 600 miles, little differences can add up. 3 miles is only 0.5%. Oddly, the track mileage and the route mileage were slightly different, and they both plot identical points.

I couldn't work out what Kurviger was doing. That was literally miles out. It causes so many issues for Zumo users. Every point is made as a waypoint - a favourite. But then it creates a track with massive spikes in speed so it has seems to have issues with its distance/time calculations. My guess is that the programmers are not mathematicians. If they were they would know the problems of dividing very small numbers with very small numbers. Especially when the numbers have truncation or rounding errors. Very unreliable results. Anywhere between zero and infinity is possible.

[Chopperbob]

I will try Basecamp...

I was using Kurviger because it is webbased, I can't install Basecamp on my work computer, will have ti invest in a laptop for myself I think!!

The company has many restrictions on what can be installed...

In the GPX file when uploaded to XT there are also many straight lines that don't seem to follow any route byt seem to be connected to waypoints? Is that what throws the extra distances in?

Robert