Poll : Curious about the Zumo XT2 ? Read on....

[jfheath]

Creating a Track from a Route - Is it Impossible with Tread ?

Answer. I think so.

The only way that I have managed to do this is to use Basecamp:

Make a route in the Tread App using waypoints, shaping points and via points, and (setting your segment route preferences if you are so inclined).
Let the route synch with the XT2.
Access the Route and use the spanner tool to make a copy - as a safeguard : any changes to the route are immediately synched with The Tread app and the original is lost forever.
Connect the XT2 to the computer with the USB cable and transfer Current.gpx to a list in Basecamp.
Select the route and create a track. Transfer the track to the XT2 in the old fashioned way.

Really, Garmin ? Am I missing something ? Query sent.

Reply received. First pointing me to a page which showed me how to create a route
A second reply pointing me to how to import a track (not how to make one)
Third reply informing me that it is not possible to create a track from a route in the Tread App.

[jfheath]

I have moved the discussion about the weird double route line that was originally here, to its own thread :

viewtopic.php?t=3005

jfheath

[jfheath]

Basecamp Routes sent to XT2


There are two distinct situations that seem to apply to Basecamp Routes which I describe below. It makes little difference whether the route is sent direct from BC, or whether it is first exported as a gpx file and then placed in the XT2's gpx folder. The same results are obtained whether Internal Storage or SD card is used. I tend to use SD card, because the XT2 does not then alter the contents of the gpx file.

1. With Tread App installed on phone and linked by BT to XT2

• The Tread app receives the via points, but it plots a straight dashed line between the points.
• The list shows that it knows that there are shaping points, but these are not plotted on the map.
• The caption alongside the listed shaping points says 'Calculating...'.
• After 3 hours and many attempts to re-synch at the XT2 and at the tread App ...nothing changed.
• if the route is changed in any was using the Tread app, then the route is recalculated using just the via points. The shaping points are then placed along the new route. The route on my XT2 was recalculated as soon as I selected Go! All I did on the Tread App was edit the name of the route.
• All route points were modified slightly, but the original and the modified points were rarely more than .0001 degree away from each other. (That is about 11m at the equator). About the width of a road.

2. With Tread App not installed on phone, or BT is unable to synch to XT2

• Most route points (Via and Shaping) have their name changed on import.
• Points created as Waypoints are now separate items. You see the Waypoint icon and you see the shaping point or via point symbol. The waypoint does not affect the route and there seems to be no advantage in creating a point as a waypoint first.
• The XT2 route is still subject to RUT behaviour in certain circumstances. The route is regarded as 'Imported'.
• XT2 has a copy facility for routes. Navigating the copied route prevents RUT behaviour. The copied route is regarded as 'Saved'.
• This is more or less the same scenario as the Zumo 595

Screen Shots to Illustrate some of the above.

Route Point Names

The Route list show the same route - Imported from Basecamp (left) and After Route has synchronised (right) Shaping point names are changed.

T3 Side x Side Route.png (38.36 KiB) Viewed 871 times

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Changed Route Over-ruling Shaping Points (Hawes)


The original route on the left is unmodified - with BT disabled, it cannot synchronise. Note the two shaping points located to force the route not to take a tiny back road that avoids the junction in Hawes.

On the right, the same route after synchronosation has taken place. The original (yellow) main road towards Hawes is visible, and the route takes the tiny back road. Now with two different shaping points to force it to do so.

T3 Side x Side Hawes.png (284.89 KiB) Viewed 871 times

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Changed Route Over-ruling Shaping Points (Kendal)


The original route on the left is unmodified - BT is disconnected, so the Tread App cannot synch. The two points were placed to force the route to take an arc through an estate to avoid the busy one way system around Kendal, and then to force it to turn right (NNE) along the A685. Turning left would force a very busy right hand turn wiht poor visibility onto the A6. The route joins the A6 by turning left (W) a little way up the road. Much safer.

The modified route - after synchronisation - has changed. The route still goes through the estate, but there is no shaping point to make it do so. After the curved road at the estate, the route turns left an then immediately right onto the A6 - the very manoeuvre that I was hoping to avoid.
The shaping points seem to have been moved onto the main A684 road - and are completely unnecessary there.

T3 Side x Side Kendal.png (295.45 KiB) Viewed 871 times

Observations - (for me).

The route is originally imported into the XT2. It doesn't need to synchronise with Tread - but it needs to because Tread doesn't have the new route.
This is not immediate. It can take a few minutes fro the routes, waypoints, collections to catch up with the new stuff on the XT2. The location of shaping points are not shown on the map.

But then, having received the information, if you use the app to make any changes at all it seems to calculate its own route, and then relays that back to the XT2 a few minutes later.

The above are just observations from a few experiments. There may be circumstancesu that I have introduced that affect the outcome of the tests.

[Sean OZ]

Thank You @jfheath for the ongoing testing. Your tenaciousness is inspiring!

[Oop North John]

I have also come to the conclusion that shaping points are a hindrance, and even if you use a way / via point that is already in the XT2 that Tread will amend it's position if you designate it as a shaping point in BC. My guess is that Tread uses the similar faster roads faulty algorithm that the XT / XT2 etc use, and forces the shaping points to comply with what that calculates is the route.

How did Garmin manage to mess things up so badly?

[jfheath]

Thanks @Oop North John .

That is exactly what I believe is happening.

I've edited my previous post because when I repeated the test, I did not get the same results. The route on the. XT2 did not change - other than the renaming and slight repositioning of route points which we have become used to in the XT1.

I'm thinking that maybe my Tread App was an earlier version. ( I reinstalled the App), or maybe I did something on the app - while trying to work out why the shaping points were not plotted. Certainly if I had edited the route in any way that would cause the route to change.

But on last nights test, it did not change directly as a result of synchronisation from the XT2 to the App. BUT I had BT on my phone turned off, and I later turned it on. I need to repeat last night's test with BT turned on from the outset.


I also want to test the same thing using (say) MRA. MRA routes use the default subclass of zeros and Fs, and the XT1 rarely changed the name of route points.

Tread App routes and XT2 routes can be configured to use different routing preferences for each segment, and that information seems to be conveyed to the XT2. Its not in the gpx file though. There is something I noticed in the .trip file, but I have yet to prove that that observation matches with the routing assigned to segment.

I am thinking that it is not so much BC that is incompatible, but the kind of route planning that BC represents that is incompatible.

If so, that requires a shift in thinking not dissimilar to the switch from cartesian coordinates (point to point) to polar coordinates and vectors - (point and direction / some other quality)

So place a via, then choose a type of routing that you prefer faster, shorter, direct, adv1, adv2, adv3, adv4. when the preference stops taking you on the roads you want, insert a via point and specify a different routing preference. Hmmm

[proofresistant]

Well observed, unfortunately

The Tread APP changes planned points!

I have a small example:
1st. Route and track from Basecamp.
2nd. Without Zumo XT2 only imported into the Tread app.
3rd. 1st result: The sharpening points are changed and moved after the import into the In Tread App.
4th. Attempts to manually place a sharpening point so that the route also follows the desired track.
5th. The Tread app also changes this point so quickly that you hardly notice it (see video in attached 20240925_220545.zip)

I find this behavior unacceptable!
If I plan a route (in this example past a Yamaha dealer without necessarily having to stop there) then the XT2 should also take me there.

[jfheath]

I redid the tests from the other day and got very different results. IN the meantime, I cleaned out the XT2 - restored it to Factory setting, reinstalled Tread on my phone, switched off the Ipad (which also has tread), didn't fiddle with the Tread app on the phone screen.

What I have noticed a few times now.

0. Route was exported from Basecamp as a GPX file and placed in SD Card / Garmin / GPX
1. XT 2 imported the route (and track) into a new collection.
2. It takes a long time for the route, via points and shaping points to show up on the Tread app on the phone. THey don't all appear together - but they do appear without touching the screen. Eventually.
3. The Via Points and Shaping points were in the same place as they were plotted.
4. The route had been recalculated and in a couple of places a different route had been found. We expect that with the XT too.
5. Route points (shaping and Via) had been renamed (mostly).
6. The route was not regarded as Imported Neither was the copy - so RUT proof. (I'm sure that has changed since my last test)

From last time I know that if I edit the route on the phone, that changes things. That was when the route points were moved significantly.
Also from earlier tests, importing the route into the Tread app - well Tread takes many liberties.....

I've still got some little anomalies to sort out and pin down as I am still getting slightly inconsistent results. But this is more useful to me.

[smfollen]

@jfheath Well that's interesting. Inconsistent results adds to the puzzle. Did you have Tread connected to the Explore database or was this recent test syncing to Tread only?

[jfheath]

I like inconsistent results. It means I am getting close to isolating the result that I want !! (or I made a mistake).

Tread as an app is on my smartphone. It is all set up and working with the XT2, but I made sure that I removed it from my screen - swiped it off the top. So I guess that the trip planner part of it wasn't working.

But the phone call / weather / traffic parts / messages / email part of it would still be working.

Previously I thought that I had to remove the App completely from my phone. This last observation suggests not.
It is only one observation though. I will try it a few more times before I am convinced.

If you can try it and get the same info or different - then I would be pleased to know.

I was fooled into thinking that it only changed the route if the phone app had synched with the Explore database and the result had been edited. But that was not correct. I was fooled becasue the updat was going so slowly. IT took about 15 minutes to synch and then change the route on the XT2. But I left this last test with the Tread app unloaded for well over an hour.