Zumo XT2 Solutions

[jfheath]

Jaco has changed his webpages. It now reads XT(2) to indicate the solution works for both XT and XT2.

https://www.javawa.nl/triprepair.html

On the XT I used the in-device method of changing the route to avoid the RUT problem. With this tool can I save the routes as a GPX file on the computers hard drive, amend it, and then send it to the XT2?

Yes it does work. One of the first things I tested when I got the XT2.

The RUT issue on the XT1 seemed to arise on imported routes (from GPX files), never on routes created on the XT itself.
This in turn seemed to be related to a single setting in the .trip file that is associated with each route:
mImported was set to either True or False. (1 or 0). The same seems to apply to the XT2.

The XT2 has a facility to make a copy of a route. It is available from the spanner menu once the route has been loaded. The copy seems to be is an exact match for the original except that it is regarded as Saved, not imported. You have to catch it before it can synchronise (turn off BT, or do not have Tread running on your phone. )

Routes created on the Tread App do not have the RUT issue.

RUT behaviour on the XT2 can be different from that seen on the XT1. I forced it to happen on two of my test routes. On one, the XT2 behaved almost exactly as the XT1 did, demanding that I go back and complete its 29 mile 'go back loop' when the next route point was only about a mile ahead.

The XT gets itself into a RUT situation sometimes - typically after a route recalculation (eg skip). The nature of the route changes and when subsequently deviating from it, it seems to head for the closest point rather than calculate a new route to the next route point. This appears to be the same logic as used by tracks that have been converted to trips. With U turns allowed and a route which has already asked you to go back, the closest point on that route will always be behind you - so it simply calculates a route back to the last place that it asked you to turn back. Logical for a track-trip with nor route points. Less so in my opinion for a route with route points.

The XT2 seems to have addressed the symptoms of this behaviour. On my other test route it didn't navigate ahead immediatel after the tipping point - where it is definitley faster to continue ahead than to go back - but it seemed to split the difference. With 20 miles to go, it continued to try to head me back, but after 10 miles it spotted the next route point and started to navigate ahead.

I noticed that the XT2 avoided asking for a U turn more than twice - subsequently looking other ways to get me to go back. This forces it to look further ahead for places to turn round - and therefore might spot a closest point of the original route up ahead, as the last point behind you is getting further away. But really, it should, in my opinion, be heading for the best way to the next route point.

Which is what it does with routes that it thinks are not imported.

[Oop North John]

Opp Norht John wrote:
I'm now convince that Tread and the XT2 are incompatible

PLEASE tell Product.Support@garmin.com. They won't fix it unless they hear from many customers.

Initial impressions are that they are fixated on Basecamp being the originating route planner.

[smfollen]

@Oop North John They do try to use Basecamp as an excuse whenever possible. You just have to tell them that the issues occur even when Basecamp is not involved.

Both @jfheath and I have explained the issue to Garmin. They understand it but it gets low priority unless more customers complain about it.
Just tell them that for routes imported via gpx, regardless of the original source, the Tread - Explore sync ignores shaping points and changes the route dramatically. You can refer to "(PSC-560689) << Ref: 28420131K1 >> <Q#:1000351>" and tell them that you too are struggling with the same issue. You can also refer them to this post which now has over 13,000 views, suggesting that many users care about the issue. https://www.zumouserforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=3007

[Oop North John]

Oop North John They do try to use Basecamp as an excuse whenever possible. You just have to tell them that the issues occur even when Basecamp is not involved.

Just produced a route on Tread allowed the XT2 to sync to it, and surprise surprise the shaping points move.

GPS files are below.

Sent the before and after plus pictures of the XT2 screen to them.

I think my reference is: Ref:28573330K0

[FrankB]

I dont have an XT2 and cant contribute much, but I was interested and downloaded the GPX files. There are 2 things that I dont quite understand. Apologies if it's not relevant.

1) Not only the 2 shaping points are moved, but also the start and end point. Just a little, you may not notice it in Basecamp. But Thread changes not only Shaping points! See the compare screenshot.
2) The 2nd shaping point is moved a bit earlier in the route. (more east). But I dont understand why the resulting route in Basecamp should be different. The point where the routes are different are after the 2nd shaping point. May be irrelevant.

Compare:

compare.jpg (234.83 KiB) Viewed 1015 times

Basecamp:

bc.jpg (198.38 KiB) Viewed 1015 times

[Oop North John]

Played with producing a route in my XT2 and then syncing it with Tread. The shaping point moves, but the route still follows the logic of where it was prior to the sync! Shaping point was near to my way point of Morgan Mcvies.

Garmin support updated with this gem

[Oop North John]

2) The 2nd shaping point is moved a bit earlier in the route. (more east). But I dont understand why the resulting route in Basecamp should be different. The point where the routes are different are after the 2nd shaping point. May be irrelevant.

I think that the route changes are due to Basecamps superior routing logic, which seems to avoid the faster roads problem that afflicts the XT and XT2.

The northern routing is about a minute shorter if the start point is before the junction near to Tough.

[jfheath]

Shaping points moving have been a feature of the Zumo since the Zumo 595. By that I mean that if you used the Zumo to change a Via point to a shaping point, the shaping point would be moved - often to a new location on the faster route between adjacent Via points.

This behaviour was also present in the XT and is still there in the XT2.

But no other Zumo has imported a route and then seemingly ignored the original shaping points, instead plotting the (faster) route between vias, and shifting shaping points onto the new route.

It has nothing to do with Basecamp. It is to do with every source of GPX file that I have tried. My evidence to Garmin demonstrated that it also happened when using a gpx file exported by tread, and then imported into a newly cleared XT2. But only if Tread could synch.

Tech support latched onto that piece of information - ie it didn't work using just XT2s and Tread.

Does anyone know whether there is a potential map difference between Tread and the XT2. Do we assume that Tread is always using the latest maps? So what happens when the XT2 has not been updated, but Tread has.

[Oop North John]

Does anyone know whether there is a potential map difference between Tread and the XT2. Do we assume that Tread is always using the latest maps? So what happens when the XT2 has not been updated, but Tread has.

I have the latest CN EU NTU 2025.20 on my XT2 and I'm sure if nothing else there is a difference at least in their presentation.

If you look at the below screenshot (from Tread) at Longdrum, it has a green dot to the north of the B999, but text below the minor road off to the west. The text position corresponds to the CN EU maps position.

Google maps agrees with the Tread map: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Longd ... FQAw%3D%3D

[jfheath]

Video V1: Creating a Route on Tread App - Using Stops / Vias and Convert to Shaping

This is a 14 minute video split into three parts. I have used an iPad to create this, using the Tread App. Features may be slightly different on your phone.

I have a few issues with the Tread app. Most are to do with shaping points. At present:

• You cannot name them
• They are positioned in on the route in the order in which you create them.
• They cannot be re-ordered - but since they are all named 'Shaping Point' you get into a mess if you try. (They can be reordered on the XT2)
• Stops or Via Points can be named, added to any existing segment, and the can be re-ordered.
• Stops/Vias can be converted to Shaping

So the video shows how this turned out. A disaster - but a video of the Tread App being used might still be helpful. Especially if the pronunciation of the word 'rowt' in the Garmin videos irritates you as much as it does me ! 'Root' is the way that we pronounce 'Route' it in Yorkshire, and in most of the UK.

The video is shown with the Ipad in Portrait mode - as on the phone app. It probably needs to be shown full screen.